Our guest today is Gui Peres. Born in Brazil, Gui came to the United States at age sixteen as a foreign exchange student. He loved the USA and eventually made his way here full-time, landed a job at a startup called Ergomotion, and now he’s their Global Sales Director. And he happens to live a few miles from Oprah and Prince Harry.
In this week’s episode, Peres tells us how Ergomotion is using research and insights to create the bed of the future and help their dealers make more money.
If you’re in the mattress business, you may remember the early days of adjustable bases when consumers associated them with hospital beds. When Ergomotion began training their retailers on how to market and sell motion bases the narrative shifted away from the “old hospital bed” toward adjustables being a lifestyle product.
Now, the Ergomotion team is working on technology that tracks and monitors each person’s biometric make-up to help them sleep better and live better.
If you’re looking for more insights, sign up for Ergomotion’s free virtual expo October 22, 2020—their research reveals the latest consumer trends around sleep and how you can use those ideas to offer your customers more (and increase your revenue).
Full Transcription:
Mark Kinsley:
If you follow us on Instagram, then you saw Quinn and I in a cemetery filming a video for Nationwide’s primetime event coming up on October 25. We’re giving the headline speech last year it was an astronaut. So we have a story to tell. And we had to start getting it out there and part of it really does begin in a cemetery. Do you want to give them any more information, Quinn about our speech? Besides.
Mark Quinn:
You know, I think it’s so we can say this. It’s kind of like the teaser that we did. Kinsley, it will take you on an emotional roller coaster ride, with twists and turns with some great information that will definitely help your business. So I think that’s an ending. I think it’s important that we’re continue to be honest with our audiences. The whole reason that we did this is because our wives will never listen to this show. And the only shot we have at them tuning in is to do like a murder podcast because that’s all they listen to. So that’s really the catalyst here.
Mark Kinsley:
I’m always giving my wife a hard time I’m walking around the house, and she’ll be listening to a dateline Murder Mystery Show on like a beautiful sunny day and birds are chirping, there’s a rainbow in the sky. I’m like you just look at for a little uplifting material to get your day going here. She’s like, you
Mark Quinn:
Right. So yeah, I’m excited that this is the first time we’ve ever done one like this Kinsley so it’ll be fun to see how it goes.
Mark Kinsley:
It goes. Yeah, and if you are a nationwide member, it’s 100%. Free. So primetime is going all virtual, as you know, October 27, through the 29th. So make sure you get plugged in and something else we want you to get plugged into his podium. And here’s we’re gonna make it super easy on your number one podiums giving away a $400 Visa gift card to anybody that signs up between now before October 31. And that’s us, not new signups. If you add a location, podiums also going to give you that foreigner dollar Visa gift card, and here’s the easiest way to do it. Pick up your phone right now. Text us 843 Marcos 2843 MARCOS 2, and we will be your podium concierge and get you plugged in with the good people over there. How easy is that? It’s like I’m in a garden. That’s what she says how easy is that? I know that too. Because murder podcast and cooking shows are what’s on at my house.
Mark Quinn:
Well, no doubt. And by the way, if you want to just text us a message and say hello, please do that because we like to get those. Kinsley, I was telling you before the show that someone actually texted, texted us 3843 Marcos 2, and they said do you guys live together? Here’s a picture of us somewhere. So interesting.
Mark Kinsley:
No, we also got a text the other day through our podium number. And we were able to use podium to leave a personalized video, which I thought was really cool. And the question was, hey, what about retailers or what customers who hesitate to let us text them? And so text us that question, we’ll send you a personalized response.
Mark Quinn:
There you go. All right.
Mark Kinsley:
If I was gonna imagine a perfect scenario, like a perfect story with a happy ending, where somebody comes to this country, and through turns and twists and all kinds of different events, they end up living in one of the most beautiful places on the planet. I’d be like that’s, it’s a fairy tale. It’s fiction. But whenever I met Gui Peres, and we were both named 40, under 40, by home furnishings business, and I got introduced to Gui, he tells me the story about him coming to this country. And we’ll get to all of it on this episode. But how just like, what’s the highlight of how you ended up in Santa Barbara? That’s where Oprah lives you know if Oprah lives there, it’s gonna be a beautiful place. I’m sure he lives next to her.
Gui Peres:
Yes, maybe four or five miles.
Mark Quinn:
Yeah, that’s actually
Gui Peres:
And not only that, the prince is a Prince Harry that came to live in the US he’s also living in Santa Barbara now.
Mark Quinn:
Of course, he is. He is so yeah, do you think that they’re saying to each other when they have cocktails or tea afternoon tea? Do you think you’re saying things like, you know, Gui Peres like lives right down the street? Maybe they’re saying that
Gui Peres:
He’s been featured in you know, furniture industry mattress industry podcasts, you know, make sure you listen to it,
Mark Kinsley:
You know, you’ve made it well, if they want to be on the podcast next to you let us know. And I do want to tell your whole story. But the cool thing is, I’ve been talking to you for a while about coming on the show because you worked for Ergomotion and your global Director of Sales and the adjustable basis category is hot. And here’s a little fun fact. For a long time, we did 94 episodes of the podcast when Quinn and I were at Leggett or I was like it, he was still there. The most popular episode of all time, during that stretch, was a selling adjustable 101, 102, and 103. We had these articles, and we basically just turned them into a podcast. And so people love the category. But when we found out that you in, ergo, we’re having this virtual Expo coming up on the 22nd, we’re like, Okay, number one, we want to tell people about that. But we got to have Gui on the show to talk about strategies and principles really help people get to know you and Ergo, but tell us about the Expo. So people get plugged into that.
Gui Peres:
Yeah, sure. So of course, it’s the first time we’re doing one, it’s going to be virtual, obviously. But the main reason behind it is to provide industry and consumer insights into the adjustable bed channel. So we, ourselves as the experts in all things, adjustable beds, that’s our core business, it’s all we do, we don’t manufacture mattresses or anything else, we only do adjustable beds. So we want to bring about a lot of information when it comes to adjustable beds in the industry and, and how to sell it, how not to sell it and what to do and what not to do with adjustable beds. We actually did very extensive market research and have a lot of really cool information to share as well on our findings.
Mark Kinsley:
Well, how do people get plugged into so if they’re so it’s a free event number one, ergo machines virtual Expo coming up? Let’s see it’s at 10 am to three, I believe, October 22nd. How do people get registered for us they can take a peek behind that curtain and see some of those findings?
Gui Peres:
Just go to ergomotio.com slash for expo and you can register.
Mark Kinsley:
Go and we’ll put it in the show notes and link to it in the blog ergomotion.com for slash expo. Well, cool. I’m excited to hear some of the findings and into learn actually learn a little bit more about Ergo because here’s my experience. Last market, not the summer market, but January market early 2020. Back when we all used to get together and hug and high five. I missed you but I stopped over to the Ergo motion space. And I was blown away by what I saw at the ergo motion space because you had combined in these products sent and sound and feel and motion into what I think you call them retreats. Is that right? And I thought it was a truly innovative product in the marketplace. So I’m excited to see what else you all are doing what well give me a little background on that. What was the idea of retreats versus like let’s crank out some adjustable product and get it into the marketplace?
Gui Peres:
Yeah, so adjustable beds have become a lot more popular. And that’s great with I think all adjustable bed companies have done a good job of putting the product out there. Attachment rates are going up. And with that, it’s become a more massified product if that’s a term. So we tried to create something that was a little bit more special, a little bit more furniture like but that also offered some wellness to it. So those are the ones of tracer referring to their beautiful pieces of furniture with an adjustable bed to have multiple features to them. Like you said, aromatherapy, preset positions that relax your premium sound systems and they just look great. Yeah.
Mark Kinsley:
So what tell us about Ergo as a company, because it’s not one I think a lot of people are familiar with behind the scenes, people probably know the name. They’re familiar with, you know, the OEM side of the business. But tell us about the company a little bit about the history and just some of the flavor of it.
Gui Peres:
Yeah, ergo motion got started by two friends along Clenet and Jack Tang. Alon was an automobile designer, if you Google Alon Clenet, you’ll find his cars. He had the Clinton coachworks. So he’s an industrial designer, and he was good friends with jack Tang, who is very well known in our industry. He was with Leggett and with oaken. And he’s just an entrepreneur now. So the two of them decided to start ergo promotion, with jack manufacturing on designing and selling the product in the United States. So that’s the quick story behind it. Alon hired his son Kelly, who was our president for a while. Eventually, Kelly and Alon sold the business back to jack in 2014. And it’s been a good ride so far it’s been we’ve experienced a lot of success, as you said supporting our OEM partners or matched manufacturing partners and to a limited extent, some retailers as well we tend to focus on the mattress manufacturers but we also have some business with retail direct some of it you know that’s, that’s been going on for a long time.
Mark Quinn:
Has it been hard navigating that kind of going in between you’re doing some direct to retail but you’re obviously going through the OEMs which When we were at legged Kinsley, as you well know, I mean, that was the whole path to distribution was through the OEM, but then a lot of the retailers are getting imports and container programs and all that stuff. Has that been difficult for you guys to navigate kind of doing both? Or have you just found your groove and things are kind of established and going?
Gui Peres:
Well I think it’s a bit of both, of course, we have to be very cognizant that a lot of our success, if not most of our success is due to our OEM partners. But we do have some niche product that we have some limited retailers.. And, and so we’ve been able to balance because we’re around. So yeah, but it is, it is challenging. You’re right.
Mark Kinsley:
I remember being like Quinn and just the reality of the marketplace, started to hit the adjustable category, the adjustable base category before it hit the mattress category. And that reality was compression in the value chain. Meaning, you know, how do you add value if you’re going from, you know, component supplier, maybe manufacturer to brand to retail to the consumer. And so, we remember that path being well, it’s not really going to be something you sell to the sodas and the tempers of the world, we’re going to go ahead and just leapfrog and sell the retail How has that relationship been able to, you know, because we saw it on the Leggett side change, but it sounds like Ergo’s been able to maintain that that business model? How what’s different thinking?
Gui Peres:
I think the key is that we create bespoke product lines for our customers. So whenever you partner with emotion, you have truly a unique set of products that looks and feels like something your brand would sell. And I guess I guess that’s one of our core competencies. So we were able, to differentiate it as best as we can.
Mark Kinsley:
What are some of the other things that you do or that Ergo does for customers or retailers, you know, training, focusing on the mattress category? Because it’s an attachment-type purchase? What are some of those key things that that you all do?
Gui Peres:
You touched on them, it’s our training, we pride ourselves in the training we offer. We offer it basically, for free to any retailer that sells our products, usually will train in partnership with our factoring partners. So we have that focus of training Sorry, I lost my thought my thought process there for a little bit. But we have our trainings that we do in person, of course, because of COVID, we developed a web version of it that have actually has actually been quite successful. We tend to focus on the mattress, the mattress, the adjustable bed is nothing without a mattress, right. As Johnny, our president says, an adjustable bed is not very comfortable to lay on. So you need to sell the mattress. So we try to keep the focus of the training on selling the mattress and making it a sleep system with our adjustable bed.
Mark Quinn:
That’s for sure. And on the training site. What do you think it’s so interesting Kinsley, do you remember back in the day when we were doing research on the adjustable band category, and I’m sure you guys have a lot of memory of this and knowledge of it. But when we first brought people in to look at an adjustable base, they would see it, and then they would see it like in like a shape or articulated. And then the consumer was like, Hell no, because they immediately jumped to old people in hospital. And the funny thing is, I’ve never seen anything like it my entire career. The experience of getting someone to lay on that product in seconds completely changes their mind from hell no to Hell yes. Because of how comfortable it is. I mean, is that like one of the biggest focuses of what you guys do in the training part portion of what you how you launch with people is, look, just get them on it on the bed. And if you do that, then the rest will take care of itself. Is that something up a big focus of what you do?
Gui Peres:
Yeah, that that for sure is a big part of it. We that’s why adjustable beds are still gaining ground online. Because actually one of the results from our industry research came back as our market research came back as consumers the lion’s share of consumers still prefer buying adjustable beds in retail. So they want to go and see it and touch it and lay down on it before they commit to buy it also because it’s a bit of an expensive purchase. So they want to make sure to see it before they buy it. So yes, laying the customer down and showing them the adjustable bed is very impactful. And yeah, that’s Well, that’s the nut we’re trying to crack as far as how do we how you translate that to online sales? Because a lot of mattresses are being sold online by our partners now. But how do you translate that online? And? And we’re working on that?
Mark Kinsley:
Do you have products that you sell online or shippable ups? Are you into that?
Gui Peres:
So we do, yes, we do have shippable. Ups, UPS ships shippable, courier-friendly products that we offer. One of our lines is a questline. That’s made very specifically for ups shippable needs. We’re offering it more on the retail side for now, because retailers also are looking for those ups, ups, Apple products. But yeah, to answer your question, we have those.
Mark Quinn :
So can you share any more about the research you guys have done? He gives us that little piece on, you know, shopping online and whatnot. But what other types of things did you learn when you went out and started asking questions?
Gui Peres:
Another interesting finding was that about a third of people are interested in having a heart function on their adjustable bed. So obviously, I mean, we’re looking into that, a sleep tracker or some sort of control with your smartphone. So a third of people if you stop to think about it, a third doesn’t sound like much. But that’s a third of people that already know, they want that. Imagine the people that still don’t know they need it. So I think it’s actually probably reflective of an even bigger number of people that would like that kind of future in their bed, making a smart bed.
Mark Kinsley:
What’s your take on that key? I mean, personal opinions here. So when you look at the fragmented marketplace for sleep tracking devices, what it actually takes from a technology standpoint to accurately measure sleep, it’s not just movement, what is your gut telling you that that’s going to go and how that gets translated down to the product level for a company like Ergo?
Gui Peres:
That’s a good question. I think smart. Sleep trackers in general will continue to be a trend. In my opinion, it’ll go from this right from being on your wrist to go in and to actually into your bed. Because a lot of people don’t like sleeping or their watches on. I actually spoke to one of the main smart watch companies in the world, one of the big ones. And they said yeah, about more than half of people will take it off before they go to bed. So then you’re not tracking sleep anymore. If this tracker is on your bed, it will obviously track you because you’re laying in bed. And the other thing too is that it’s a neutral place for a very quiet and perfect actual place to track your vitals because you’re laying there and you’re quiet for eight hours, six hours, seven hours. So it’s a great place to actually track your vitals and as a result, your sleep. So I think it’ll continue to be a growing trend for sure.
Mark Quinn:
Hey, guys, when I was with Leggett, we did some work with development work with Sleep Number. And we used a motion sensor to track vibration, right. And then we isolated the algorithms to identify snoring and tossing and turning and all these things. And so the technology is great. And they still use it to this day, they ended up buying the company that I was working with. And so but one thing I found there is number one at the time, nothing like it existed. And so it’s passive monitoring versus an intrusive system of the watch. Right? So this you just lay on the bed and it captures the data. And you don’t have to do anything you just sleep in it, like gives you a report. Couple interesting comments. So when they get you to react, we call it a sleep report. Consumers were like, don’t give me a sleep report. I don’t need you to tell me I suck at sleeping to know that I suck at sleeping, right. So they didn’t want to be graded on their sleep it like added stress to them. So I thought that was interesting. But then the other part of it was two more they once they slept on it for a week. So they got the data. And the data says okay, when you drink wine at night, then you don’t sleep as well. And people were like, yeah, got it. Okay, after being told that like five times got it. Which leads me to the third part, which has you thought about how to integrate the information into Apple’s system to where it’s actually usable information. So yes, like after a week, I get like what it’s telling me, but how do you tie it into the other aspects of self. So Kinsley and I are beating the drum all the time about nutrition, being a big part of your health exercise, being a big part of your health, how do you kind of weave it into lifestyle to where it is more relevant and more usable?
Gui Peres:
So that’s, that’s the goal. So basically, what you’re talking about is IOT, right? connecting your bed to the network you’ve created of smart devices. Number one, so maybe your bed knows you’re sleeping hot so it’ll turn to crank up the air conditioning, right? Things like that. So So the next step is so you’re tracking your sleep, you’re learning about what you can do to improve your life. What’s your point? Okay? Don’t tell me I need a drink less because I need my, my bottle of Chardonnay every night. Okay, so the next step is okay, so the beds gonna do something for you, it’ll raise your feet, raise your head, it’ll let you sleep a little bit longer because it’s so that you came in late last night. It’ll again, thermostat shades, and beyond, the things that I can’t even fathom will start being part of that risk response to what the bed is sensing.
Mark Kinsley:
You know, I think something got clarified for me just now. So in our new book, and I don’t even know if I’ve told you about this guy. But we have a book coming out on December 8th. And it’s all about attracting foot traffic to your store and building a brand people love. And part of writing this book was, yeah, we want to help people drive foot traffic. But we realized that people have an identity problem. So we wrote about brand. But then if we back up, even more, we wrote about the state of the industry. And this is a high-level snapshot. Okay, this is not a deep dive into the state of the industry. But we tried to hit the highlights and establish for readers, here’s what’s happening in the mattress universe and how dynamic and shifting it’s become. And one of the things that we touch on is sleep becoming the third leg of the health stool, and how we as an industry need to continue to position it as the third leg of the stool, nutrition, fitness sleep. And we talked about the earthquake outside of Berkeley, where the Fitbit scientists saw the data. And as the concentric circles got further away from the epicenter of the quake, fewer and fewer people wait, were woken up, according to the Fitbit data movement. So closer to the epicenter, naturally, people woke up? Well, for the first time really at scale in human history, people had insights into what was happening while they were asleep. And we had rich, large amounts of data. And so I thought a lot over the years about baking technology that tracks sleep, into beds, and into adjustable. And then of these products, and I really felt conflicted about it, because I’m like, doing something cool for the sake of doing it is what an engineer does, which can be awesome. But it doesn’t mean people want it. But as you were talking about putting technology and sleep tracking into beds, it hit me, if we as an industry are going to promote our products, as the solutions to be the third leg of the stool and firmly connect better sleep to the mattress and the foundation and that sleep. We have to put technology in there that people are going to relate to we have to be the technology provider that shows them these insights into sleep. Otherwise, risk bracelets, or pills, or who knows what could pop up, get positioned as the thing that delivers better sleep. If we are not the technology source, the source of data, the source of information, the source of trust in our products. We get disassociated from it.
Gui Peres:
Correct. I couldn’t have said it any better. You great, great summary. Quinn, am I on here?
Mark Quinn:
Am I on, no, I think you are Kinsey I know what’s interesting to me further to that is Gui it’s um, you know, the thing our experience with it is if you’re wearing a watch or some kind of a band, that the data isn’t as clean. And it’s not as good as what you’re able to get in a passive monitoring system if it’s built into the bed system itself. Right. So that’s, I think, where you can have a real opportunity there. And you know, Kinsley, something else. And Gui, I think you alluded to it is where this stuff gets really cool is when you’re able to take the data and potentially use it to bring to your doctor and say, Hey, here’s what’s happening with my sleep or better yet, as a predictive analysis on a stroke is coming. Heart Failure is coming. Because when those things happen, a stroke, you know your biometrics change your body temp drops, your heart rate changes, it’s erratic. There’s certain things that happen. It’s so I think that’s just fascinating. So I think we’re just at the beginning of that Gui and your development. Have you heard people talking about stuff like that? Do you think that’s a realistic expectation about the future state for your industry?
Gui Peres:
Yeah, it certainly is. And it borders medical device, right, what you’re saying? Well, that’s a whole new world. But as I mentioned, the owner of our company, jack Tang, he has a company in China that’s actually doing that. Exactly. So he partnered with assisted living facilities in China and he has a sleep tracker. In beds, they’re monitoring to senior citizens. And now there and they’re working in partnership with a very prestigious university there. I think it’s pronounced Trumbull University. And they’re finding that, you know, hey, this person probably hasn’t taken their medication, we can tell by their vitals. So let’s make sure they’re taking the medication or four or five, six days before, I don’t remember if it was a heart attack or a stroke, they can tell they’re gonna have one. So yeah, all that stuff is already happening. And in our parent company, China is playing with that. But of course, you know, to bring that over here is, is, there’s a lot of work still to be done. Because we’re talking about America and things are a little bit different. But we are playing with that in abroad.
Mark Quinn:
You know, what’s funny about that, that story, just told, bam labs was the group that I worked in, in terms of development with the early versions of the biometric stuff. And one of the things that they were doing is it was in China or Japan, I think, but it’s an interesting application of the technology where there are so many people that live in these high rises, that a lot of times, they may live alone, and they may die. And then if they die, nobody knows that they’re dead. And so the body starts to decompose. And it creates all kins of problems in terms of smell and like what it does to the actual physical. So they were putting these trackers in just to see if there was still heart rate. And if they weren’t detecting motion, or people sleeping in these beds or heart rate, they would go check on the people. So I thought that was kind of crazy. Another quick story was they had an assisted living kind of like what you’re talking about. This is an early, early test, and they couldn’t figure out why some of their beds stopped working, like around one o’clock in the morning and things like that. And they had two or three people on them. And they’re like, what the hell’s going on, we stopped getting the signal. It wasn’t that it’s that the guy is getting some action. They were like moving and going into other rooms. And they discovered that there were guys sneaking around. This is the living space. And it was you know, so anyway, I thought that was pretty there.
Mark Kinsley:
There’s no they’re leaving their room to go to the gals room.
Mark Quinn:
That’s right.
Mark Kinsley:
You know, Betty across the hall? I gotcha.
Mark Quinn:
Exactly.
Gui Peres:
There’s some European company. I think it’s a Spanish one. And I think it’s Bitcoin but don’t quote me on that. Even though this is being recorded, that they came up, they came out with the, with a sleep tracker, and they marketed it in a way that looks when you’re gone, you’ll know if someone else is sleeping on your bed.
Mark Quinn:
Well let me tell you when we first started doing prototype testing me and all the engineers were like, well, we got to take these prototypes somewhere and try them out. We were talking about all the different things that would capture. So snoring and tossing and turning and leaving your bed. One of them was intimacy. Instead, the joke was we really don’t need a computer to track how many times we’re having sex and none of us are that lucky. And so that was the joke. And then the second was when we tried to tell our wives we have to bring this home. And like test it out and try it out. And all that stuff. Our wives was like hell, no, you’re not going to take that. And then you’re gonna go back to the office, and you’re going to compare notes on all your tracking, you know, results. So anyway, it was funny, but there’s some ideas for you free from the Dos Marcos show as that.
Gui Peres:
It’s incredible. Thank you, Mark.
Mark Kinsley:
We are talking with Gui Peres of Ergo motion here on the show today, Gui. Thanks for making time. You know, we’ve had a chance to get to know each other over the past few years. And it’s just been really fun. I love having people like you in the industry. And I loved hearing your story too, as we had a chance to, you know, grab drinks or meet up at these different events. And you’re from Brazil. And now you live in Santa Barbara. Connect the dots for us there. How did you end up in the US from Brazil? What’s the state of your family? Do you still have family in Brazil? I know you ended up stopping in North Carolina paint the picture for us?
Gui Peres:
Yeah. I’ll try to summarize it with you. Thank you, Mark. I, first of all, I love this country I want to make this very clear is that I love America. I moved here because I wanted to move here. Because it’s I know that I’ve been here since I was 16. I can see how you start being critical and how you see this country and you start to see the things that are wrong with it. I get that. But we cannot forget how blessed we are to live here. This is such an incredible country. There’s so that the pros way outweigh the cons I just wanted to make I just wanted to put that on record. You know, because there’s a lot of heat going on in our political discussions that I hope that we can start focusing again on what’s working here. And that’s a lot is working in this country.
Mark Quinn:
Well said.
Gui Peres:
Thank you, Mark. So yeah, I moved to this country originally as a foreign exchange student when I was 16. To live in Granite Falls, North Carolina. That’s actually how I got connected with the furniture industry because grand Falls is this close to Hickory, which is kind of close to a high point and everyone worked with furniture. So that was kind of my initial connection to the home furnishings industry. So, yeah, I lived there as a foreign exchange student for a year. It was awesome. I still keep in touch with my host family that I went to college in Miami, at Florida International University for two years. I had to go back to Brazil for a hiatus where I ended up finishing college down there, I got married to my beautiful wife Faye, who also works for ergo motion. And while I was finishing college, through some industry connections, I got connected to Kelly clay, who was the original owner with a lawn has that overgrow emotion and he said, Hey, I need someone like you’re working with me in Santa Barbara. And I said Santa Barbara, when do I go back to the US anyway. So I was employee number six and Ergo motion was barely making payroll when we moved up here. And when I moved here, the salary the company paid me barely paid for rent and food I’m not exaggerating, because again, it was a startup there was no money. But you know what, a lot of hard work a lot of faith, a lot of good luck. And more importantly, you know, partnering with the right people got the company to where they finally were I finally was able to afford living in Santa Barbara because you know, here whether it’s perfect but taxes are also very high. So you got to make sure you have a stable income here in Santa Barbara. But that’s kind of my story of moving to this country as a foreign exchange student wanting to stay here making the best of it. And you know, learning the language and learning the culture and all that it’s all doable. It’s such a land of opportunity here It really is.
Mark Quinn:
I’ve been to Brazil a couple of times Gui and I, you know what you’ve been gracious and what you said about America. Your home country is gorgeous. I love it a lot about Brazil. And it’s just so fun together. I love panga and which by the way, it won’t hurt you like badly.
Gui Peres:
I know what you’re doing there was sugar in lime.
Mark Quinn:
Yeah, it’s a cocktail. Kinsley we’ll have to maybe we should make panga and caffeine is the official beverage of the Dos Marco’s podcast.
Gui Peres:
But anyway, I can fix them for you.
Mark Kinsley:
The official exchange is tequila the official beverage.
Mark Quinn:
That’s right.
Mark Kinsley:
But we don’t have an official mixed drink. So that can be on.
Mark Quinn:
No, there you go. Hey, look, I love your country
Mark Kinsley:
To suppose we have a quorum. Let’s have a vote right now. I vote I vote yes.
Mark Quinn:
I vote yes.
Mark Kinsley:
There we go. Oh, good.
Mark Quinn:
Tell us this, though. You talked about a little bit of the data tell us about like, you know, do you maybe I’m missing it. Kinsley Tell me what your senses to before he answers. My sense of this is like the industry for adjustable is that like, everyone’s kind of in the category and it’s gotten so big that it’s not like you’re out there trying to push people into adjustables it’s like everyone’s so far in it. Now Kinsley is that your opinion also is that your perception of the category.
Mark Kinsley:
My perception is that there are some major players and I think people are trying to find the niches they can continue to serve. And when times get tough, the big players tend to emerge stronger, because some of the smaller operators are, are not going to they’re not gonna make it. So I think the category is a whole like, I think it’s one where innovation really does drive the category as a whole. And so if you could be a small player and innovate kind of like when you know Gui came here is just this foreign exchange student trying to find his way through I’m sure he had to be really innovative as a human being and he ended up prospering those are the players that are gonna be able to push the category forward and hopefully pick up some steam and I’m sure you know like you said, Gui, you’re talking about Ergo motion, being very small when you went there did innovation. Mark, big advancements are some of those catapult moments.
Gui Peres:
Oh, absolutely. So I think that’s one of the big things that distinguished us especially from the beginning is our innovation and our design innovation. We like to think that it was a show that came up with the idea of let’s make these beds look more like a piece of furniture versus you know, some institutional product, and that was very successful. Back in 2010 1112, when I come for it was coming out we were the adjustable bed for that launch, and, and it kind of looked like a piece of furniture and it was wildly successful kind of set the tone of what an adjustable bed should look like. So innovations Yes, and not only in the features but in the design. are very important, but to address something that mark Quinn said just earlier, adjustable bed, adjustable base rate, attachment rates are still around 15 20%. We calculate. So there’s still 80 to 85%. To grow, right? If our goal is that one day No, no mattresses will be sold with a flat Foundation, they will all be sold with an adjustable bed, right? I mean, we need to shoot for that goal, right? And we’re at 15 20%. So there’s so much room to grow. And not only for us but for our competitors and for the industry. So I truly see it as Yes, basing it on innovation. Like, for example, how you sell these things online? Well, so we’re still all figuring that out, what features what technology Do we need to add to the product so that it’ll attract other market segments that aren’t buying adjustable beds yet? You know, there’s a lot of opportunity.
Mark Kinsley:
Good, one of the things that we chatted a little bit ahead of time, and I thought this was really fascinating. We’re here right now talking about innovation, we’re talking about the features that consumers want. And you said, ergo motion has actually reduced some features, there’s been some feature reduction, what specifically Have you taken away? And what made you take technology or take features off those bases? What led to that decision?
Gui Peres:
Well, there’s um, I’m not going to try to pronounce his name. But the gentleman in France, who wrote the Little Prince, the book, he said, perfection is an adding it’s, it’s not having anything else to remove. So we kind of think about that a lot. What does the bed actually need are people using massage, for example, are people using massage? Actually, most people don’t. It’s a good sales tool, when you’re in the store that the sales associate shows you the message, once you go home, it’s something crazy, like only about 3% of people actually use massage. So we decided that a lot of our products are not going to have massage anymore. Or if they have it, instead of having two motors is just one head motor, which is the preferred massage location. So and then other people prefer on the foot. So we just decided to take it out of some of our products. Another one is, it’s actually a bit of a dichotomy, because, we created the adjustable bed that looks like a piece of furniture. But now we realize also that the vast majority of the market doesn’t need that. So we started simplifying the design of the product so that it would reach certain market segments and search certain price points, that if we were putting that design furniture design, look into the product, it was making it a little bit too expensive.
Mark Kinsley:
Also, reducing features, that’s got to be a tough edit, to make, especially whenever you have people that sell a certain way, you probably have customers that are addicted to punching the massage button and seeing people’s faces light up. You’re right. I mean, when you get it home and you’re not actually using something then you just wasted your time, your resources, and the customer’s money.
Mark Quinn:
I love that quote, though, I’ve not heard that that is so true. Like taking things out. And simplification. We talked about that a lot. Do me a favor. Before we get done today. If there’s a retailer out there, and I know there are many where they may be in the category, but they’re not really leaning into it, right? They’re not training, they’re their conversion rates aren’t really that great compared to what other people are doing. What would you say to them? Like what’s in it for me for that retailer? Like what would you say to them to say Hey, guys, like rattle their cages came in, lean into this? Because if you do, there’s great stuff ahead, like what would you say there?
Gui Peres:
I’ll try to summarize because I can talk about this for hours. So you know, we want to make a successful, we want to make sure your average sticker price is double than what it usually is. So what some adjustments on your floor, let us partner with you and train you, we will teach you how to sell them. And we will not only teach you how to sell adjustable beds, but you will also sell more mattresses as a result. That’s what we’ve been finding out as well. With the approach of the sleep system that we try to preach is you know solid as a sleep system, the mattress number one than the adjustable bed as the base of choice. So give it a try, you got to put some on your floor if you can’t sell something you’re not showing. So you need to have a few. Now the average is 50, 60 70% of any given retailer has you know, adjustable beds about 50, 60, 70 to 70% of their mattresses. Have them and yeah, give us a try.
Mark Kinsley:
You know get one of the tests on my memory here. My memory is one of our old friends, Larry Schinkel wrote some articles on how to sell adjustable bases or how to show them? And I think his technique was called the one-minute demonstration. So tell me if you have any modification says but I think essentially was the customer’s lying down. You say hey do you mind if I add some comfort? So you do the head up, ask them when to stop. Do the feet up, ask them when to stop, then you take away so you hit the flat button. And then they, you see what kind of watch for their reaction and ask them if you want to bring it back. So you show them what that feels like. Then you take it away, and then you bring the comfort back. What else? What did I miss there?
Gui Peres:
That’s it. That’s it in a nutshell. You show it to them. I would just suggest you start with the foot. Most people you know prefer if the foot goes up first versus the head. Give them Larry’s absolutely rights one minute foot up, head up. Maybe tell them look, would you like to try the massage? Let them be there for a minute or two because it feels really comfortable. That’s the thing about the adjustable bed is no one’s going to tell you Oh no, this feels uncomfortable. But there isn’t a single human being in the world that’s going to tell you that. So once they have it and you press the flat and it goes away. You know, Johnny, the president of our company always says that the fear of loss is always a greater motivator than that of gains. So you took that away from the person and now they’re gonna want it. So yeah, Larry’s right.
Mark Kinsley:
One of the other things that I always Quinn, you, can you just pause like that.
Mark Quinn:
No, I’m laughing because you’re gonna kill me for my last question. So I’m gonna wait until I meet you. I don’t think I have a control.
Mark Kinsley:
My add-on here was whenever I was talking to Larry, and when we were at legged at that time, we learned that if you remove tension from the human body, here’s what it looks like. It looks like an astronaut in space, your knees are slightly up, your feet are kind of out in front of you. Your hands are kind of floating. It’s called zero gravity position. And I thought that was a great way to communicate. Oh, this is what your body actually looks like look at an astronaut like our friend Chris Cassidy, who’s on the space station right now. And that’s what they look like when tension is removed. Well, we can simulate that or get very close to it only by having an adjustable base. Alright, Quinn, there you go. I’m unfreezing you. And the mute button is off playing.
Mark Quinn:
Alright, key on the way out. And I hate to reduce you to this question. But it’s relevant. Okay. Are you know where I’m going? Yeah, it’s got to be said, Gui. So we did a photo shoot for someone who was in the adjustable bed business years ago. And she gave me a book of Kama Sutra. And she wanted me to do a photo-shoot for her of 52 different sexual positions that you could get into on adjustable basis. And so showing the difference the benefit of an adjustable base to a flat base. And I’m thinking to myself, 52, I thought they were like five, right? And so she gives me this, we did this all the photos here. And I don’t think they ever did anything with it. All of that to say this. Do you think that there is that kind of benefit in the adjustable category? And do you guys talk about it at all? Should you talk about it more like where’s your head around intimacy and you’re in your product? Because there really is a big opportunity because it is a big difference from having that or a flat but it does open some doors, right?
Gui Peres:
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that’s a great, great last question. Thank you, Mark. You’re welcome. Gay. Yeah, that’s awesome. So we when I used to train early on, and I use it Talk about it hey by the way adjustable beds are great for sex too you know you can get creative you know it moves you know have fun with it so I don’t think we do it officially enough and maybe because you know our industry may be seen as a little bit more conservative I think that’s changing now with all and everything but yeah, you know that’s a great idea, Mark. Well, well look into it.
Mark Quinn:
l, Gui, here’s what I offer up to you hire Kinsley and I because we don’t have a conflict in this category and we will come up with three concepts for you that will blow the roof off of your whole category with an approach the right approach for intimacy. How does that sound, Kinsley?
Mark Kinsley:
How did well I think maybe it’s how does that sound?
Gui Peres:
Lovely it sounds lovely. Coming from YouTube what could go wrong?
Mark Kinsley :
And it’s all a guarantee one thing though, it’s gonna be fun and we can at the end of it drink our official cocktail which is called a what’s it called?
Mark Quinn:
Okay, I lied. I have one more question are all like you are such a handsome guy. And the women in Brazil are so beautiful or like all I’ve been there like, portrait-like the Brazilian people are beautiful. Am I wrong?
Gui Peres :
Yes, Brazilian people are beautiful. I would agree with you. And it is a beautiful country. By the way. You know, I talked about how much I love America. I love Brazil. I’m proud of being Brazilian. I speak Portuguese to my kids. My wife’s Brazilian. And that’s why I’m married one because they’re beautiful. Yep.
Mark Kinsley:
I did here. This is very rude. But I’m going to repeat it. I heard that people in Brazil say that? That you know the kind of export a GSL because they’re, she’s like a six.
Mark Quinn:
Is like I’m gonna tell you, man, the Brazilian women are actually it’s a matter of fact, my wife. I can’t ever show my wife this podcast because she loves Brazilian men and I love the Brazilian women in the future they’re just beautiful people. So it’s so funny. But anyway, I don’t think I’ve ever told the guy he’s handsome on the show.
Mark Kinsley:
So I was about to course-correct there and say, Gui. You’re a beautiful person inside as well, my friend.
Mark Quinn:
Oh, stop. You’re not?
Mark Kinsley:
You’re not just a piece of meat to this show. Okay.
Gui Peres:
You’re validated. Thank you. If I can say one last thing. Can you guys give me an opportunity to quote something, please? Yeah, so I shared a book with Mark Kinsley and Mark Quinn when I’m happy to send you one. It’s one of my favorite books that’s called. It’s a biography on john wooden. So basically, john wooden said this. I don’t know if you guys know who john wooden is. He wasn’t a coach. He was amazing. Won more titles than any other NCAA coach. He said You have not lived life a perfect day. I’m sorry,’’ you have not lived the perfect date until you’re done until you’ve done something for someone who cannot repay you. So that’s what I’ll leave you guys with
Mark Kinsley:
So that’s what I’ll leave you guys with you. That was the line from the book that I underlined, extracted, and put on a piece of paper. Oh. And said I love that. I love that. Well, Gui, thanks. Thanks a million for being on the show. And just one last little visual here if you’re watching on our video podcast, but if you’re on the audio version, ergmotion.com forward-slash Expo, you’re good to get to know the game more and get to know some of the nice people are gonna motion more. And thanks for doing something that like I said, the Ergo motion virtual Expo is coming up on October 22. So do get signed up. And you’ll get to know some of these fine, fine people at Ergo and learn about the category learn how to make more money, learn how to continue to elevate the products that we make in connected sleep.
Mark Quinn:
I’d like to just add to what you say Kinsey if you’re listening to this, and you’re not really into the category, you guys, Kinsey and I talk a lot about on this show experience. We talk a lot about lifestyle. And this addresses everything. So give some real thought to talk to your customers not just about the base, but the quality of life that delivers because that’s really what the adjustable base is. It’s a happy place. And it is about creating an environment that gives you peace and makes you happy and makes you comfortable. And the base and all the technology that’s going to come with it are great things to compliment that narrative in your store. So get you’re in a great industry. And we’re so grateful you’re on the show. Come back well yeah.
Gui Peres:
Will do Thanks, guys. This was awesome. It was my first Rob. I’m sure the second one will be better.
Mark Quinn:
Thanks Gui.
