It’s not easy being at the forefront of cunning innovation and change, but Leggett & Platt is doing it with confidence and skill.
In today’s episode, David Eidson, vice president of GSG North American sales, and Paul Block, president of sales GSG join Quinn and Kinsley to discuss the new XT9 machine and how L&P is navigating a glue-less world.
They also touch on automation and how it impacts quality control measures, trends in machinery and (everyone’s favorite topic) the labor market.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Mark Kinsley
You know sustainability and mattresses is so often focused on what’s in a mattress but what about how it’s made it all connects to labour to automation and the future of mattress making. Paul Bloch and Davidson from Leggett and Platt are here. The Dos Marcos show begins right now.
Welcome to the dose Marco show with Mark Kinsley and mark when we’re mattress and furniture leaders gathered to grow, get the inside scoop, tell stories and take tequila shots. Welcome aboard. Here’s your passport to a planet filled with the mattress industry’s brightest minds and biggest ideas. The galaxy’s greatest mattress podcast has lifted off in three why?
Mark Quinn
Hey, Mr. Kinsley, how you doing? Hey, by the way, I want you to know I woke up after riding mountain bikes with you and my butt hurts so bad. I could barely sit in the chair just saying, Hey, I
Mark Kinsley
even gave you some Pillow Pants totally clean by the way, but I gave you Pillow Pants. My wife calls them that actually. Shammi remind her and still didn’t work for you
Mark Quinn
know I’m wearing them. Now. I find that they’re very comfortable with a bunny, but you just wear them all the time. It seems to be great. You know Kinsey, we’re very lucky today because we both are graduates from leggett and Platt until they ran us out. HR is a huge misunderstanding. But anyway, they leg it just ran us the hell out of there. No, the guys from like it are awesome. And we know both of these guys, Paul and David, from our time there. So the fact that we get to do a show with them is awesome. So Paul block, you know Paul’s story. He’s not just an amazing business guy that knows a lot about machines and equipment. His family has been in the industry for a long time. And he’s now like a and he’s also a fantastic musician. I had the chance to play with Paul and the insomniacs in industry rock band, and they pulled me up so they’re up on stage and I got to blow my heart with them. And Paul’s an incredible keyboard player. Did you know that? You’ve seen him play right?
Mark Kinsley
Oh, I’ve seen him play I spoiled I saw you at an industry event. You hop up and tickle the ivories and sing a song. And even though they had hired a musician, like we need to get the real musician in the room up here and you just absolutely crushed it. So yeah,
Paul Block
thank you guys. It couldn’t be kind of couldn’t be kinder and marks a killer harp player. He won’t play it up.
Mark Kinsley
Don’t don’t build up a guy’s ego that’s got a unenhanced rear end at the moment from his pillow. Okay, he’s already getting enough compliments. I’m sure this
Paul Block
this is me. I think that’s gonna be a fashion. Well, the
Mark Quinn
pup pants make it look like you have a behind. So that’s good. I just gonna wear him now. It’s nice. David, do you play any musical instruments like tambourine? Like I suppose do anything?
David Eidson
No, no music, no musical talent at all. So you’re just
Mark Kinsley
a super talented engineer that makes world class machinery. As a matter of fact, I think the last time I saw you guys, you’re like, come over here, check this out. And it was around that x t nine machine that you guys rolled out at ESPA. And we were gathered around and then we high fived and hugged and said hello. And I got to see the machine run. And then we broke and I haven’t seen you guys said so it’s nice to be back back together. So is this your Was this your one of your babies? David the XT nine? Or how did this all come about?
Paul Block
Well, I mean, we actually launched the 19 at interzum. And you know, then it was the plan was to bring it to the domestic market. And the world kind of shut down for a couple of years. So this was the first launch domestically for that machine. So this
Mark Kinsley
gotcha gotcha. It’s super cool. Well, we wanted to talk to you guys today about some trends in the labour market. Talk about automation, talk about machinery talk about how it’s changing the way mattresses are made, and also aligning with what consumers expect whenever they end up buying a mattress these days. So let’s let’s jump in. I mean, what trends are you seeing let’s start with you Paul, in the consumer in the labour market and automation space and how those things all connect.
Paul Block
Oh, the labour market as we all know is one of every business’s biggest nightmare right now, just getting any labour let alone skilled labour is very very difficult. So for us, our our customers challenge is to de skill that labour and eliminate labour in any heavy lifting any normal processes that we can replace with a robot or a mechanism That eliminates those, those particular jobs, or allows somebody to do a different job. It’s just hard to find people that show up for work these days. So we’re trying to find ways to help our customers, every customer is a little bit different. Every problem is a little bit different. But we have solutions for everything. I wouldn’t say everything but a tremendous amount of what’s in the mattress industry.
Mark Kinsley
I hear this from a lot of people right now. We experienced the same situation, what what’s your best guess here, guys? Because sometimes, I’ll talk to people about supply chain and labour issues. And at this point, folks are looking at each other going, well, what are people doing? Where are they at? What? Why are they not working? What’s your best guess at this?
Paul Block
David, I’ll let you answer that. What do you think?
David Eidson
I mean, it’s real competitive, you know, making a bed mattress isms. It’s hard labour. You know, it’s a manual type function where, you know, you can go to other industries, restaurants, and they’re paying top dollar now for people because they can’t find skilled labour either. But, you know, you’d rather flip hamburgers than flip mattresses, it’s a lot easier to work at the end of the day. So I mean, that’s kind of
Mark Quinn
lighter. They’re lighter. And, but but mattresses are fewer calories, in fairness to mattresses.
Paul Block
But one of the things that we do is try and eliminate that weight from being a part of the problem, trying to create a circumstance for an operator to thrive and not have to do all that heavy lifting. So that’s part of it. Okay, let’s
Mark Kinsley
go there for a minute. Let’s dig in a little bit and get granular. So a world class operation, let’s say in the US today, that’s using automation and maximising automation. What does that flow look like from the time the raw materials come in until the mattress gets spit out the other side? What does world class look like when you let’s say, D skill that ticket as many human touch points out as possible? Paint that picture for us?
Paul Block
That’s David’s expertise. Go ahead, David.
David Eidson
That’s a that’s a big question. So because it’s, it is a big question, because it’s gonna kind of depend on the type of mattress being assembled, you know, we’re on complete foam core mattress, it’s all done with you know, lamination and didn’t build up your layers from there, where if you’re doing a hybrid type, you know, to get the units coming out either from a crate being compressed, they have to, there’s really no automation to open those, the row if the road type units, yeah, we can dispense them with our roll open your system, and feed them down through the conveyor, and then they’re pulling them off and doing the assembly work there. So it’s, you know, eliminating the touch points with the foam type mattresses are a lot easier to automate. Because it’s everything’s just flowing through we have devices for doing the layer of the comfort layers on top of your core. And then from there, we’d go to like get an FR sock to fetch required and then the zipper covers but onto the closed and wrote back and out the door goes
Mark Kinsley
and so just in I know it depends on a lot of different variables, but just in kind of the averages you see how many people would typically touch that mattress and that more highly automated process
David Eidson
the one that we’re working on to present at interzum One person running the line
Mark Kinsley
the entire line yes versus what might be the average is today at a typical factory.
How many people
Mark Kinsley
can one that okay 10 down to one okay, this I have to see this I have to see so Okay, let’s let’s dig into like something that I did see, which was that x t nine machine, describe this and help us understand is there a D skilling that happened with x t nine, you take labour out of the process in some way. But first, Paul, why don’t we go to you tell us what the machine does and why it matters.
Paul Block
So what we’re doing is we’re putting together comfort layers, we’re stacking comfort layers and putting them together. We’re joining them. We’re currently most manufacturers use glue and between each player and they have to handle each layer, put glue on, put them together and continue on through that process as they build it up. What we’re doing is taking thread and we’re using a sewing piece of equipment that will join those layers together with thread without compressing it. So if you can take a four inch Max Don’t lay on the phone and put the thread through it without compressing it. So it maintains its natural height. So the great advantage, there’s many advantages in that. Some are from a sustainability point, some are from an airflow point, I think more more important than anything is the airflow. One of the things that are that mattress designers put a lot of time into, is creating the perfect comfort layers that go together that create the perfect comfort experience for the end user. What they do that as they put these layers of glue in between each layer, which it reduces the amount of comfort that you’re going to have in the bed. So what we’re able to do is join those together with thread and therefore keeping the airflow, the original design of the bed, the way those layers are supposed to work together and feel together is preserved. And it gives our customers a better that an
Mark Quinn
impulse to talk about the airflow just so everyone understands this machine is that number one, I was shocked, I didn’t realise it was four inches, that’s pretty thick, right. So that’s a lot of ability to quilt or attach layers together, right? But it hits it like every how many inches, so it gives you a gives you a tag like that long, right and then and then it hits it again. And how many more inches?
Well, we start out with a condensed, it’s at the start of the prod right there about one inch in length, and then we transition to a three inch long stitch. And then once we reach the trailing edge, it transitions back to a one inch,
Mark Quinn
how long in between three inch stitches, you hit it with three inches, and then hit it again, how much further along how far apart are the three inch,
Nine Inch twins in B.
Mark Quinn
So my point though, is for our audience, because if you have a nine inch, you know, a three inch tag and then you wait for nine inches and then you hit it again, then that space in between? Can air can flow through there, right. And so it billows up a little bit, it still holds it in place for good quality. But air can flow through that. Versus if you have two layers of foam stacked right on top of each other. No air gets through there. Am I Am I capturing that? Right?
Yeah, I mean, on who you’re going to have a barrier, it’s going to be the whole width and length of the whole foam piece. With thread, even where we stitch in between each stitch three inches, you have all of that flow as well. So it’s not only continuous flow through each nine inches, but it’s side to side in between each three inches as well. So plenty of airflow in there makes a big difference in the matters.
Mark Kinsley
It’s interesting to to think about, I’ve looked at a lot of factories, just from the standpoint of what are the steps, where are the bottlenecks, and I’d say bottlenecks at glue stations are real issues for a lot of manufacturers, whether that’s creating a foam tub that you have to drop in or spring unit down inside, or you know, putting a pattern of glue over a piece of foam and layering it up. So so this I would imagine it saves in labour and like you said it kind of does skills, some of that, does that capture it accurately. And it’s a clean process again,
Paul Block
a cleaner process, it’s so much easier to to work with. Glue is messy, and it’s gonna stick and it’s gonna get all over the place and you’re gonna have to keep it clean and you’re gonna have to clean the machine and make maintain the machine a lot a lot of power to run it. It’s, it’s a tough process. It’s also a few can ask any
David Eidson
sorry, there’s also a rework savings because if you know unfortunately if the operators build up the wrong pieces with the glue, then you’re trashing that old piece. We’re with the 69 product. All you have to do is pop the threads unravelled, rebuild it the correct way run it back through the machine, so the reworking eliminates that and scrap materials and everything for the manufacturers.
Mark Kinsley
Wow. Yeah, you think about how many times that happens. You know, some of the factories they literally put different colours across the very end of those pieces of foam and it’s like I need a a green or I need an orange and sometimes the phones discolour and they put the wrong one on there and all of a sudden you’ve built the wrong bed and you have to trash the both of those layers of foam if you can’t peel them apart. So you’re saying the next day night it’s just thread boom you go and you cut it flip it, you’re bringing the right piece and you’re off to the races and you didn’t have any waste. As an industry, there’s, there’s a mandate, I think we’re under, in a sense to introduce more sustainable practices, not only from keeping mattresses out of landfills, but think about what’s happening in that manufacturing environment that we’re solving for here.
David Eidson
Right, that’s what I was gonna say, it makes it a lot easier to recycle. Because currently, you have to separate the layers, you know, from the foam layers to the spring unit, to the covers the fabric and everything, they’re wanting that separated in at least, the stitching, well, with the stitching, like I said earlier, you can pop threads and separate all the layers, and they’re not contaminated with easy
Mark Quinn
things. So I want to get to the glue in a second guys. But one of the things that like really, like impressed me too, is I think quality control is a huge deal for factories. Right. So number one, we talked about the labour so you don’t have guys spraying everything with glue. So that’s one thing, this thing goes through an automated process, right? So it’s easier there. But also, with an automated process, you really can control quality differently, right? So I know many, many times, I’ve been in betting factories, and a lot of times there is a problem with the glue, or the glue hasn’t sat or the glue didn’t, you know, cure to the foam. And it just causes all kinds of trouble. And so this can really eliminate that problem, right?
Paul Block
Yes. And it’s a process that they know, right? It’s, it’s basically a welding machine. In essence, as far as the way it works. So it’s something they’re familiar with something they deal with every day. There’s no surprises here. And it’s very simple. And I
Mark Kinsley
can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen dads get spit out of a, you know, roll pack machine. And under that compression, if the glue wasn’t dried, then you have a product that you can’t sell. I’ve seen layers just completely stuck together, and it deforms the mattress. So if you take glue out of the equation, all of a sudden, you get a product that you don’t have to worry, you probably actually speed up your throughput because you don’t have to wait on anything to dry. Have you? Does this roll back? Okay.
David Eidson
Yes, yeah, we’ve done the like the rollators lifecycle test on it, Cornell testing, and it all passes the stitching and everything holds up. What we’ve seen is maybe some the threads, cut a little groove in the phones, but the stitching will not break.
Mark Quinn
And you can still roll. So that’s good for anyone doing that, right?
David Eidson
Well, I was gonna say the same thing, Mark? Well, the same thing he was talking about there is, you know, especially if they’re hands free, and, and the operator, you know, Brian, and looking around, and they’re having to set those products, maybe six to eight hours to let them cure before they can roll back for what you were saying there. Because if they try to do them wet, it’s either going to push the moisture out into the fabric and stain it, or you’re gonna get a ramen noodle out of the mattress when you open it. So
Mark Quinn
don’t want that. So the glue is a problem, not just for that. But let’s talk about glue in terms of sustainability. Like when you go to recycle a bad number one, if you get all that glue gums up things, right. So in the like, recycling machines, if I’m not mistaken, and in glue in a bed is not environmentally friendly, am I right?
David Eidson
I would agree on that. You know, it’s because it’s a chemical base, I don’t hear it as often but used to be here, once the consumer got the robot at home, there was an odour off of it. And don’t you know that tied to the glue and everything. So
Mark Kinsley
just in terms of, you know, integrity of feel, you know, like we talked about earlier, if you ever build up a mattress, you can actually put a piece of butcher paper in there, like a really thin one. And, you know, you’re gonna feel the difference of that. So you can put very, very thin layers in between pieces of foam or springs and foam. And you can feel that change. So you can only imagine that if you’re putting an adhesive over the top of it, that adhesive is going to fundamentally alter that field to some degree, especially when it’s layer upon layer upon layer. Hey, tell us the origin story of this, David. I like that. You know, I always noticed this when I was at Leggett Leggett is not afraid to look at what has been done and then revisit that. And it’s really cool that you took a machine which is you know, effectively a quilter, which leggett and GSG has been making for a long period of time. And you’ve adapted this over to you know, create a product or create a process that’s more sustainable, that, you know, maintains the, you know, the fuel integrity and has all those other benefits that we talked about. Was this an initiative that, you know, found its way into GSG through customer demand, or was an internal project What’s the origin story here of the XD nine? I keep going back to that one because it’s the one I saw on the one that we You know, we’re kind of an
David Eidson
internal project, I mean, we actually started out with a just a two needle machine basically set up at nine inches apart. And really the first samples we made up to start testing, we hand stitched them together, just to see if the look because we didn’t know if we could, because, you know, with all the multi needle voters that GSG does, we’re compressing, you know, this much material to this to get it stitched. So the goal with this one is to take that much and not compress it. So, you know, we had to look at how much needle travel was going to have to get through the material without compressing and be able to form the stitch when we came back up. But that was in development. Three years before we introduced the machine to the market.
Mark Kinsley
What kind of placements? Are you getting with it? Now? Are you getting customer feedback? At this point? What are you hearing?
David Eidson
We got a lot of interest. That is, I mean, we’re doing follow up, you know, I think it’s such a drastic change from the way everybody’s traditionally made mattresses glued together and skip it out. And it’s, it’s, I think it’s just trying to get that convinced this is a better method. And that’s one reason we wanted to get on your guys’s show to get the word more out there and keep promoting it. Yep.
Mark Kinsley
Well, it doesn’t hurt to that you showed it to us. It has been and we’re like, yes, that we need that in our industry, this needs to be more of manufacturing process. And look, David, just what you said is such an important point. I remember back when we were, you know, talking about quantum edge. And you know, that was a fundamental shift in the manufacturing process. They were having these huge bottlenecks at the glue stations to build those foam tubs and quantum edge took the those perimeter coils all the way to the edge. But it’s like, wait a minute, this is a change, change is hard changes. Sometimes an investment change is training, you know, it’s internal buy in, it’s all those different things. That, gosh, whenever something comes along, that’s a no brainer like that, and like like this, and you know, I think it’s time to take a hard look at it and figure out, you know, how can I, like we talked about solve some of these labour issues? You know, we got to focus on that, how do we take human touch points out of it? And then how do we really be able to tell a sustainability story that’s truthful. And I think that’s these are all trends that we need to find machines and products and materials to support.
Mark Quinn
You know, Mark, I think that’s a great point, because it’s not just making a bed with natural materials. It’s the process that you make a bed with, you know, TSI TempurPedic is doing a lot around solar, and they’ve committed to building one of their factories and example, like we’re all charged, you know, big corporate investors, boards of directors are so focused these days on companies that have sustainable stories. So it’s really relevant to everybody, not just someone who values that, Paul, you’ve had a lot of conversations with customers about about the x 39. And so tell like, what’s resonating with people about it, right, there’s so many different like benefits from it, you’ve got the airflow, you’ve got a consistent quality, the ability to just really maintain that consistent quality, lack of glue that’s good for the environment. You’ve got so many stories to tell here. Like what what’s really landing with the bedding producers that you’re talking to
Paul Block
talking about airflow right off the bat, that really gets people interested. And that for me, has really brought people in and wanting them and they want you to look at the product and take it seriously just looking at that. However, once you start getting into it, and then you bring up the glue story, and you start talking to people about what it does in their factory and how they have to deal with it now. And they have a way to get out of that. It’s it’s very attractive to them to hear that, that it’s possible. And then you start exploring the savings. There was a big saving story here as well. And we’re not even using that as a lead. But it’s
Mark Quinn
how do you get the savings? No, Paul, how do you do the math on that? When you’re
Paul Block
if you price out what everybody’s number is different, okay? And everybody’s factory, what they’re used, what the cost is per layer. Everybody has a cost per layer. If you take that cost per layer and let’s make up a number let’s say it’s $2.50 a layer. If you compare that to thread, thread is going to cost you maybe 20 cents. I mean, kind of stretching it over the whole mattress It’s all the layers. So the cost savings is dramatic. When you start looking at that part of it, then you start adding in all the extra add just that maintenance labour is gonna make sense as far as that’s concerned, on top of being able to run all three layers through four layers, whatever it’s going to be through the machine in one shot, all those things are very, very helpful make a lot of sense to
Mark Quinn
Kinsley, that’s a good point. Because normally when you make a bed, right, you take one layer, spray it, put on a second layer, spray it put on the third, right, that’s what you have to do, spray it and spray it and spray it and then that’s four layers spray four times. With this, you just throw it through the machine, it tags it, and you’re done. And it’s consistent, and it’s got airflow, that’s pretty cool.
Paul Block
You got to stack them, get it, get a straight, put it in the machine, and
Mark Kinsley
then all of a sudden, you know, after 20 of those assure side the new 35 Start a new guy comes in and he’s working those screws it up four layers, boom, now you just cut it, cut it, send it back through, get it right, I love that I love that piece of it just so you you can eliminate waste,
Paul Block
it’s it’s also good for the sustainability portion of it as well. Because the different materials that you’re going to use in your in your stackup if you’re able to separate them, and then use them repurpose them for the next stage. It’s a better sustainability savings and more impact. So it also you don’t mix in the glue and you have fresh materials that you using for whatever that
Mark Kinsley
next and Paul that’s a big conversation in the industry right now how can we build mattresses that are ready to deconstruct for recycling for that end of life. And one of the key things it’s you got to be able to get those parts separated as simply as possible, so that you can put them into the different channels they need to go into so that individual material can be recycled in that individual way and then repurposed and upcycled into some future product. So we do have to I think we’re charged with this imperative of being sure that we’re building with deconstruction in mind, while also you know, honouring our commitment to build quality products and I think you’ve checked both the boxes on that. And it was really cool product to see work and personal like wait a minute is is quilter No, this is foam going through, like spitting foam through and then I was talking on it and you know, it all worked and it’ll help nice and tightly and then you guys, you know, started digging into them like this is a story that we need that tell in the industry because it’s a great living example of focusing on sustainability solving real manufacturing problems, introducing cost savings, and then addressing some of these trends like we talked about with the labour market being tight. So kudos to leggett and Platt and GSG Paul, you and David How can Hey guys, how can people see the X t nine and learn more about GSG where can they go if they
Paul Block
go to GSD companies.com The extra nine is on there, as well as a bunch of our other products and they can reach out to David or myself and we’d love to walk them through it and hear what their story is and see if there’s a match and if it makes sense for them to explore the
Mark Kinsley
everybody you have a you have a contact form up on GSG companies.com that they can use that contact form.
Paul Block
Yes, absolutely. Or Paul docblock at Leggett back home and David Dotson
Mark Kinsley
and as always was we’re happy to stick handle it for you if anybody reaches out through the fam we’ll make sure you’re getting in touch with these two fine gentlemen and just if they’re also interested Paul, is there any YouTube video of you playing out there that people can find
Paul Block
there is a GSG if you look under GSD on YouTube you’ll find some videos of me playing I’m sorry I got that
Mark Kinsley
yeah like why play of G have
Mark Quinn
videos of you playing the piano come out I’m
Mark Kinsley
glad they support you
Paul Block
say playing you could you could maybe if you want to friend me on facebook. I want to just say there is some stuff on YouTube you know you need some
Mark Quinn
private links I know how it is I know how it is I just want to say to you guys like I you know like it doesn’t get enough credit in my opinion it Kinsley and I are kind of homers because we weren’t there. And we understand the thought process and in what it takes. David, I think you said you had the idea two or three years before I came to market like you guys blow me away the innovation you bring to the industry, the way you think about things. It’s different. You guys are driving stuff into the market. Clear solutions for bedding producers out there. We’re pushing towards sustainability. This is a great option for people. And just hats off to you guys. So we’re doing some really cool stuff and, and staying ahead of it and bringing innovation into this category. We need it. We’re grateful to you we’re grateful to GSG and leggett and everybody it doesn’t hurt to call these guys and ask a question or understand it better. You got to see it for yourself is really cool. But David and Paul, you’re you’re awesome. Thanks so much for spending time with us and will you come back sometime and share some more innovation?
Paul Block
Absolutely. Thank you guys. We really appreciate you hosting us Thank you.
