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Season 2 of “Just Stories with BT” features all Female Executive guests in the mattress/furniture space or other underrepresented industries!

These episodes focus on getting to know the amazing woman behind these roles and giving a platform to talk about getting our male dominated industries more balanced out!

Tracy Jackson is the CEO and President of HR-EZ Inc. and might just be one of the best humans on the planet. Tracy and I go way back to 2005 when I witnessed her come into an organization that was in need of some major restructuring and updating with the times when it comes to HR practices and diversity. I watched as she built a new culture from scratch and eventually helped take the company into an ESOP where all the employees were the owners. She has an incredible ability to remember everyone’s name and make you feel special and she is as accomplished as a person as she is in her HR certs. This episode dives into the importance of diversity and inclusion, balanced leadership, and how you should treat people if you want to be successful. There are some emotional parts no doubt, and anyone who listens to Tracy will be a better version of themselves 100%!

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Full Transcription:

Brett Thornton  

What is up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of just stories with bt I am really excited this week. I know I say that every time I say I’m really excited, but this time, it’s coming from a different place because our guest today Tracy Jackson is a friend of mine who I’ve known for. I just did the math 15 years. And she had a massive impact on my life in my career in kind of my first major job that I had when I was young. And so I’m really excited about our conversation today. So welcome Tracy to the show.

Tracy Jackson  

Thank you. You said, You know me for 15 years, that’s half of my lifespan, right? Cuz, you know, I’m only 30. Right?

Brett Thornton  

Yeah, less than half my life. So I mean, I yeah. So Tracy is the CEO of her new company, HR easy, Inc. and, but before that our history, our paths crossed in multiple places, but we’re going to get into all that. But I want the audience for those who don’t know, you just to get a little bit of backstory on who you are. Who’s the person behind this podcast, I’ll catch you for every book. And I do this because, you know, at the end of the day, nobody wants to talk about themselves. Right. So I’ll do it for you. And then afterwards, you tell me what I miss. I’m good. Okay. Sounds good. Here we go. So here’s Tracy Jackson in like 60 seconds. All right. So Tracy grew up in Northern California, as did I and Sonoma County in rohnert. Park. She grew up she was a hardcore athlete loves softball, volleyball. She was raised by her single dad, who was a career police officer who was nicknamed officer friendly. So which is weird, because then you grew up and you’re so not friendly, you know, so I don’t know what to talk about that.

In fact he has a school named after him Lawrence E. Jones Middle School in rohnert. Park, which is really cool. As you were growing up, your first job was at hot dog on a stick? Yes. Because I think I’ve done like 25 episodes. And I think you’re the third person whose first job was hot dog on a stick. So I think they know their target market like 16 year olds, let’s get them. And then you got into retail at fan Stan. Which anymore, but sports apparel and whatnot. In high school, you excelled at sports, you’re an MVP and softball your first team all league and volleyball, you were even on a team that represented California and like a national softball tournament, which is really cool. Um, as you grow older, you went away to college moved all the way across the coast to New York to go to St. John’s for two years. And I love what you said that, you know, this is pre cell phones. So your phone bills were out of control. And I have a follow up story on that. I mean, it’s. So you move back to the west coast for your final two years to San Diego State University, which is obviously the best schools where I went, right? Yes. And then and then while you were in school, you were interning for State Farm. And then after you got out of school that turned into a full time job where you were for seven years, which is really cool. And then that also was a time when you fell in love with HR and got involved in HR. So then you went from State Farm, and then eventually Apple, and then a few different stops where you worked your way up the corporate ladder. And then in 2004, you came on board as the vice president of HR at sleep train, which was a good big game changer for yourself. That’s where we met. And then you were there for 12 years, which included the math firm kind of acquisition and all that stuff. And then you went on from there to to become the Chief Human Resources officer at safe credit, and the VP and then eventually the president and CEO for HR easy Inc, where you are now during that time, you had a few small milestones, which would be you got married to your awesome husband, who you’ve been married for, for 24 years, you refer to as big man Kelvin, and your daughter.

You became, you know, a scuba diver, you traveled the world by elephants and surrounded by lions. And you have this amazing. It’s like incredible. And so I normally was gonna say a little bit of it, but instead I realized, I’m gonna stop, and then let you tell the story to everyone because I want to. First off, that’s Tracy. So what what did I miss?

Tracy Jackson:

That was actually pretty darn good. So I’m impressed that you got all that in there. So yes. All right. So I have lots of horrible fight stories. And actually a many of them happened in a row. Many people just said, I’m not traveling with you because it was for. So I was on my way to Texas one year. I’m pretty sure it was probably 93 or 94. Because I know I was dating my husband but we weren’t married. So we started dating in 93. That’s a different story. As we’re flying to Texas, it’s just me. I hear the saying is there a doctor on the board is there a doctor on board and they’re scrambling people are jumping over seats. They have a guy on the ground I’m trying to stay back so I don’t crowd so I just stay in my seat but I know that there’s Someone who had a heart attack on our plane. And I’m like, oh, that that sucks. Hopefully they can, you know, get them under control. So as we’re about to land, I see a whole bunch of lights on on the landing strip. And I’m like, Okay, it looks like fire department, lots of lights, ambulance, whatever. I just think that, okay, they’re going to get this person off the plane. So I exit and I know there’s a lot of commotion going on around me, but I just, I’m just doing my thing thinking I don’t want to be, you know, looky loo to this person who had this heart attack on the plane. So my family is actually in Texas, we’re all doing like a reunion or something. And I get to the, to the hotel, and they said, Hey, were you on that flight? that just came in? I said, Yeah, they said the one where the pilot got arrested. I said, the pilot got arrested. So I had to do a little search and find out that my pilot was actually they were there to pick up my pilot, he had been drug trafficking. And so he got arrested in the person on the plane got taken away on an ambulance. So yeah, it wasn’t a beautiful day.

Brett Thornton: 

So Oh, my God, that’s hilarious. I had a kind of similar story a little bit different. But, um, I showed up one night to go, you know, we always go to these markets in Las Vegas. In fact, we’re leaving I leave early on in two days. And so you know, these flight these late night flights to Vegas are always entertaining anyways, because it’s just, there’s this a unique crowd, usually like the person who’s taking the, you know, the 10pm flight to Vegas. So I show up to the airport. And, you know, got my bags. And first thing I noticed is like, flights delayed, and I’m like, Oh, God, alright, so I’ll walk over the bar, you know, so no, no, we’re in this little area. And San Diego has like this other little mini terminal where there’s like three gates. And that’s where we are in this little place. There’s the only people there are for this Vegas flight. So then, as soon as they say it’s delayed an hour, everyone has the bar, you know, because I Well, nothing to do, you know, go to the bar. And as I’m walking in, I hear this guy get up and he goes, he’s like, I don’t care. If I can’t get a drink anywhere else. I’m sitting next to you anymore. He storms off. And he’s talking to this like, sweet looking lady. She’s probably in her 60s, you know, over at Amazon, and looks at me and kind of smiles. And I’m like, okay, I sit down. And then so she could call the bartender and she’s like, give me another one of those triples, like a triple and another triple, right? And the bartender is like, well, I don’t know, you know, you know, you’ve already had two or something like that, like, I don’t know. And she’s like, come on Sunday. I, you know, I drink all the time or whatever. And he goes, Yeah, but you’ve run to people off the bar. And she’s like, Yeah, but I’m buying trips. I’m making up for it. And this is like conversation, I sit down within like 30 seconds. I realize she’s just hammered, you know, and she’s just talking to anyone who will listen, and she’s really obnoxious. And she keeps talking about she’s the Southwest number one like flyer she flies like a million miles a year or something. And how she’s a eight, like, you know, basically first class and all this stuff. And this guy next to me was like, we’re on Southwest, there’s no first class, like, there’s just nothing here, Southwest. So anyways, we get on the plane. And she’s she was like, a whatever. So she gets on first and sits in the very first row. So I just go to the second row and sit down. And I had been talking to this couple next to me who were just getting married, they’re going to Vegas for their honeymoon or something. So we were talking and doing you know, and kind of had a good conversation going. So when they get on the plane, they were like, Hey, you want to just keep the conversation going. So they sit right next to me. So we’re in the second row, and she’s in the first row. And so we’re boarding the whole plane board, and then all of a sudden, the last guy gets on and he’s like this real good looking lawyer type, you know, he’s got his briefcase. 40 just looking all slick. And he sits right next to there’s no one sat by the lady in the first round because everyone knew like, she’s just agile. So he sits down, and I look at the couple next mango, oh, there’s this is not gonna end well. So they right as she sits down, you can just see you’re just yapping at them. And, and we go we’re taxiing back, we haven’t even taken off yet. He hits his flight attendant button. And the flight attendant, you know, leans over from her seat. She’s like, what’s going on? And he’s like, you need to move this lady. And they and the lady starts yelling. Apparently, like she was saying some really inappropriate stuff. So the flight attendant gets up, they had to stop, we were going to take off, they slow the plane down. She gets up and she whispers in his ear and I can hear because I’m in the aisle right here. She’s like, hey, I’ve dealt with this before. It’d be easier if I asked you to move because it we don’t want to seem you know, we can tell she’s not so he. So he’s like, sir, can we can you move back so he moves like eight rows back and sit down. So we take off, everything’s good for like five minutes. As soon as we hit that, like 12,000 foot thing. She keeps looking back at it like this, you know, and, and all of us are like what’s going on? So all of a sudden she gets up her bag, she grabs your phone. She gets down to turns on her phone or whatever. Then she gets up she runs back to eight rows and takes a picture of him and then runs back down and sits down and he gets a call button and he tells a flight attendant this led this Crazy, they just took a picture you can either tell her to delete this picture, and the lady’s like, man, did you take a pic? No. Nope. And like so they can do an argument. She’s like, you have to delete the picture. They get in this huge yelling match the pilot, the Assistant pilot comes out.

He’s like, ma’am, you need to like, you know stuff. And then she pushes this the pilot, and apparently you put your hands on a flatbed or whatever, it’s like a felony offense. So then some other guy comes from the back because I don’t know if he’s a police officer, what are what are his they kind of contain her whatever. And then And granted, this is to Vegas, so the flights, like 20 minutes, you know. So then they the Flight Center from the back comes by everybody’s like, hey, when we get there, please everyone stay in your seats, let her board let her de board first. And she was saying this in first something about this is first class first class like this is in her head. So all I remember is as we finally she gets done, police are there at the thing like right at the front, take her down. And we finally deboard like 10 minutes later. And as we’re coming up that like you know the ramp, I can just hear screaming about first class and we get out. There’s 10 you know, officers around, she’s on the ground. She’s still fighting with them in handcuff. This is this like, lady who’s like his business traveler, you know, and I just remember being like, Oh, my God, she literally ruined her life. In fact, you know, in half an hour, you know, which is just incredible. So while I’m sure it was a slow progression, though, this was just you got to see the crescendo. Coming from a true HR professional, that’s where your mind. I’ve seen this before, you know? Yes. Yeah.

So before we get into your stories, I do want to follow up on you know, you did you did mention, you know, raised by single dad, you know, lifetime career cop. So, what do you think? How do you think that impacted your life and kind of how you ended up? You know, getting into what you did? And whatever? Do you think that had a big impact on it?

Tracy Jackson:

No, it obviously did. It clearly did. I was very influenced by my father. I was really, really close to my father’s family. My father, well, actually all of my family, but I was raised mostly around my dad’s family and I come from a massive family. That might have been another good story for you. My dad is one of 12 his dad is one of 12. And my mother’s mother is one of 18. So yeah, you know, I was a Jones. So keeping up with the Joneses that came from us. Yeah. But my dad, it was one of the most amazing things about my father was his ability to come in and calm a situation that was chaotic. And so he had this uncanny ability to really get to know people and to personalize the conversations. You know, it’s, it’s interesting, as I was learning and going through college, I was a psychology major took sociology classes, and they talked about like, some of the mob mentality, and how often what, what you do to calm a crowd is you come in and you you recognize people and say, Tom, I know who you are, Jeffrey, I know who you are, Connie. I know who you are. And that takes away the mob mentality. And my dad had a way of knowing everybody in town, and being able to come situations. And it was just really interesting to hear people always telling me stories about him, and about how he came in and brought some calmness into a situation. So it was really interesting. Lots of people had stories about him. And I remember a trip that we were on with, with, with sleep train. We You know, every year they go to Maui, because we have these top performer awards, the executives win as well. So I got to go to Hawaii. Oh, darn every year. But I remember talking to a guy and he was telling me he happened to say something that his girlfriend lived in. He didn’t live there, but his girlfriend, I said, Oh, really? I said, I bet you she knows my dad. So he texts her. And he says, Wow. And he looked at me and I said What happened? He goes, actually, your dad saved her life. And so he goes to tell me a story about when she was a baby, she stopped breathing. And my dad was the first responder to get in and had resuscitated her. And I thought how cool but I mean, I don’t know how this sounds, but I heard stories like this about my dad all the time. So it was he had this ability to do that. And I think what’s interesting is, is my dad was was really big about learning names, which, if you remember I was too. That’s something that I really felt like I needed to know is like I know people really strongly. My grandmother was the master of all of it puts everyone to shame. My grandmother was the most incredible person I’ve ever met on this planet. She was just amazing. So it was interesting because I went to an elementary school across the street from her house and my grandmother passed away. At 95, she was I think she made 96 because it was right after her birthday. But I remember my grandmother, being able to tell you almost every single one of her kids who went to both actually, every generation, she could tell you all the kids in their genealogy, it was like reading the book of the Bible, where you talk about genealogy of who is who and how this person was this person. And I remember my elementary school had a all decades reunion, and we were there. And she can name almost every single person that was ever at that school and who they belong to, and everything. And I thought, I don’t know how you did that, because I barely remember the ones in my class and the ones I even went to school with. But she, her memory was absolutely amazing. I remember calling her sometimes. And you know, she’s one of those people who remembered phone numbers. She wasn’t about the cell phones, even though she passed away probably five years ago, I would call her and I’d say, hey, Grant, what is this person’s number? And she would tell me, oh, it’s Klondike. I’m like, No, no, no, no, no, tell me the numbers. She was like, well, it’s Delaware. And then she would tell me, because that’s how she remembers phone numbers is, you know, when they first started, she can almost tell you how they were all created. So yeah, she was an amazing storyteller. She knew people really well, my dad was really good and gifted at it. And I realized that that seemed to serve them well. And so I tried to make it a point to really get to know people, because I felt like they responded better with you, they felt like you knew and cared about them.

Brett Thornton:

Oh, 100%. And I can definitely validate that, you know, I think that’s something that definitely stuck sticks out as, as a memory of you, you know, coming down to I was in San Diego at the time while I was in San Diego, but, you know, you would come down from Sacramento. And yeah, it was like, how does Tracy know everybody already has, you know, all their names, you know, we don’t have you know, everyone but but I think at the end of the day, especially in HR, you know, building those relationships and getting people to trust you enough to tell you what’s going on, or what they’re struggling with, is just so important, you know. And so having that ability, obviously, you know, is huge. And it’s I just like to hear the backstory, because, you know, we just we know, people, you know, we work with them during certain times in our lives. And you know, people have these amazing gifts. And sometimes they inherently, you know, it’s something that they kind of pass down, or they picked up on, you know, and so we don’t really know what that is. And so now I’m kind of hearing that, hey, it’s coming from your dad and from your grandma, which is really cool. Huh? So you mentioned the, it was one other thing I had to talk about, because it was really funny. So you mentioned your phone bill when you’re at St. John’s?

Tracy Jackson:

Oh, I mean, I don’t I think they couldn’t even bended. Remember your phone bill a bit was bent. I think I got a whole blog like Manila. You know, the phone bill was like 32 cents a minute to call the West Coast. And it was ridiculous. I had to run from phone bills. You know, I’m kind of embarrassed now. But I was like, well, we’re moving. So I’m going to talk a lot this month, and then we’ll get that phone bill at the next place. And, you know, that was before they check social security numbers. I remember actually my first job I use my dad’s social security number. They didn’t care. They didn’t know he’s like, I don’t know what your number is here. Use mine. So

Brett Thornton:

hey, Tracy, I want you to move to New York and like, man, I can’t go there. Not on that state, unfortunately.

Tracy Jackson:

Oh, wait a second. This is the days when they had handwritten file. So you know, those those I’m not worried about? Yeah.

Brett Thornton: 

I always when you said that I had like this horrible memory too. So when when I was in college, I live in this house of big house, four bedrooms. And then it had a detached garage I live in, there’s five of us or six always, people coming and going and we had this one roommate we needed like an emergency room because this kid didn’t like failed out of school this semester. So my buddy’s like, I met this really cool kid on my soccer team, he needs a place to live. Right? So he comes in and turns out like not so great. Like it’s just not, he just wasn’t a fun roommate to to live with. And and at the time we met this other kid Kevin, across you who became our best friend. We were skating every day. And he’s like, man, I want to move in. And we’re like, yeah, we want you to move into. So we had a house meeting like all six of us and we told this guy Hey, you know, sorry, but it’s not working out. Like we need you to move out at the end of the semester. It was like a month away. And he here we were like 20 at the time. 2021 he proceeds to give us a silent treatment for the whole five weeks. Doesn’t say a word to anybody. But he his family all lived in Israel. Like his like not even like extended like his most all of his family live in Israel. So to get us back he was calling Israel every night on our landline so he really got the last laugh he moves out doesn’t say a word to us. You know, everybody moves in and we’re all excited and I’ll never forget Todd right. You know, my buddy thought Yes. On walks in one day cuz he managed all the house bills and he’s just got this look on his face. He’s like, and puts up this bill, you know, and it’s like Like, seven or $800, or something, which today would be a lot. But then for us who had no astronomical, you know, our bill was like $20. Normally, you know, between five of us and we’re like, $800, like, how am I gonna pay this? So we actually threw a party to raise money. No party raised, which I thought was actually pretty, pretty good idea. That’s all that I love that story. So, you know, before we get into kind of where you are now, obviously, our history goes back to sleep training on I talked about your kind of progression. But I really want to know, because I haven’t actually ever heard this from you know, so you came in 2004, the VP of HR and so just to preface for everyone listening, this is sleep train, which was Dale Carlson’s company, you know, grew to be the biggest kind of mattress come in the West Coast and eventually sold to Mattress Firm. But prior to that, in 2004, when I started to, there was basically no HR. Right?

Tracy Jackson:

There really wasn’t I came in and I started the HR department. And I’ll tell you my first week there, I almost left. Um, I don’t know if you remember what, when? When did you start in 2004? Because if you started 2004, you beat me, because I started November, November 22. I started in April, and then Okay, so you were there before me?

Brett Thornton:

Yeah.

Tracy Jackson:

Christmas party. That was that would have been my first time going down there because I started the week of Thanksgiving that Monday. And so here comes the Senior VP of the company, Mike, come to tell me, Hey, we got this policy. He endale Tell me, we got this policy we need you to send out. And it’s called the no rapid consumption of alcohol policy. This is my very first week after company. And I said, Wait a second. First off, you did this. So it was basically a no shots policy because they didn’t want to go on this Christmas party tour that we were going on. Because they knew every stop that they will be told to take shots. So on my first week, they hand this policy to me did send out, I said, this is suicide. You want me to start working today and send this out by the end of the week on my first week to tell people they can’t do shots and you were doing in the first place. And I remember thinking my old boss said I got two weeks to figure it out if I want to come back and I can come back and I was I really seriously considered.

Meanwhile, we’re all in the stores going like oh, this new Tracy come in now. Now no one can do this or that they they just set you up. They totally but it was a total setup. And I was like, What the hell have you guys been doing? What am I gonna uncover? So basically, I walked into this company of basically I was like the fraternity house mom that I’m having to tell everybody now we got rules. And so yeah, that was that’s how I came into the company.

Brett Thornton:

The first time I think that I will a couple things happened back then in like, oh 506 where where I remember, you know, being involved with you and seeing your face a couple of times in the first one I think was 2005. I got promoted right off the bat like nine months. And in 2005 we had our first like leadership SLT retreat in Reno. And we do those skits. And I heard is my first time in SLT. I’ve been promoted like the Friday before, get on the plane. I’m so excited. And like the first day we’re doing these skits. And I mean, if we were to go back now, videos, skit, I’m sure we would just die at what was happening, you know, but there was just no rules at the time. I mean, there was no real like, it was just kind of if it was funny, then we let it go. You know?

It was hard. It was it was hard to wrangle you guys all back in those years. So, yeah, it was fun. I mean, I think of the fun times, like my kids got lots of excuse me, my husband got lots of good stories, my kids like some of them too. So they didn’t get all of the stories. But sometimes I just had to come home and shake my head. But a lot of people wouldn’t know those. But yeah, so we I can remember having conversations with you and a few others before because we used to do remember at our leadership conferences, we would do sleep train idol, which was and then I was the host, I was I played Ryan Seacrest for like four or five years in a row. And I just remember like sitting back, you know, and Tracy would come out and be like, Alright, so they’re like to the panel of judges. All right, guys. Have fun, but like, please don’t say this. You know, because it’s like, you guys, you can’t see this stuff, you know, and we had a few people on those panels that were definitely wildcards say that there wasn’t a few there was one in particular. So yes, I just call him JJ. We know who he is. And he happened to be on my team and I, I tried to send messages to him so they didn’t see the walk of shame that I was going to take Up to talk to him. While the show was going on, I was like, get this message to him that he better bring it down some or he will see the Tracy Jackson show up.

Tracy Jackson:

I can remember, I can remember being on stage a couple times and literally just turning red, you know, like, he would sit and did not quite know what to do today. Okay, moving on next act.

Brett Thornton:

Yeah, it was like he’d been waiting all his life for that moment to be on some kind of reality show, though, for sure. It would have been, I would have watched no doubt, cable network reality show. Yeah. So So tell me, you know, before we, I love to dis hear stories, you know, we’d love to get to know the kind of people behind these roles. And obviously, we have a history but you know, I’d love for you to First off, you know, all the sleep transformers are great and, and Mattress Firm and save credit. But now you’re the CEO and president of his new company. So give us the 10,000 foot overview of what you’re doing now. And, and what HR easy is really all about.

Tracy Jackson:

So, this was kind of my dream, when I realized I was gonna leave sleep train. I knew I loved working with culture and great cultures and building great cultures. And I also knew that it would be hard to replicate that, you know, that was a organization that, you know, I make fun of and about the things that we started with, but the way that we came together and the way we were find that it was kind of like a masterpiece that we left that we created. And I was really, really happy with that. And I knew that it would be very difficult for me to ever put my stamp on an organization the way I did there. Just because you know, a lot of organizations don’t allow you to do those things that I was able to do. And so I decided, while I was at sleep train to actually envision this came up with the name and everything that I wanted to have an organization or an HR consulting firm, that worked with smaller organizations to help them grow and build organizations with really great cultures. And so this is like a fractional C suite organization. But I also do a lot of work with diversity, equity and inclusion. So DNI something that I’ve always felt passionate about. And I also felt like my hands were tied to work in those areas, and to say things that I wanted to say, while I worked for an organization, because when you have an executive title, you don’t speak for yourself any longer, you’re always going to be a spokesperson for the organization, you know, so I knew that anything I said, would be attached to the organization that I worked with, if I wanted to speak on these kinds of issues. And so this now with me belonging to my own organization, I can actually push the envelope more than I can, working within a system. Now, maybe that’s not true in every organization. But for the majority of organizations, there’s a lot of things that, you know, if I wanted to say Black Lives Matter and an organization, they might say, Tracy, you need to slow down, and I will get the brakes pumped on some things. Or I would, I wouldn’t want to say that and represent an organization if I didn’t think that they would back up those words. And so it was important for me. And I felt like I had the covering from the fact that Dale set us up in a really great position, when we were leaving that, you know, I could finally step out on my own and do some things and take a little bit more of a calculated risk. And I thought if I’m gonna bet on anybody, I’m gonna bet on myself, because I really feel like I can do this and Excel. And I had seen some people do some training and, and speak on these issues. And I knew I could do it better. And I knew that they were just doing it to check the box to say that this could happen, and they got the training. But I knew it was very personal to me. And I had a lot of experiences that I could share that would help people to understand why this was important. And so that’s the reason why I started HR easiest for those those purposes.

Brett Thornton:

That’s awesome. And obviously, I mean, timing wise, you know, the last year and a half has been pretty, pretty crazy. And I know I’ve seen just by following you on your LinkedIn and whatnot. Like I mean, you ended up having tons of opportunities to go around and speak. And probably do, I would imagine more of that stuff than you probably ever thought.

Tracy Jakckson:

You know, what’s interesting is, is COVID actually opened doors for me that I didn’t anticipate. So now people are so much more used to seeing people in virtual spaces, I don’t have to be everywhere. And so that was an unexpected, good byproduct of COVID that I get to go speak at conferences and with organizations that maybe would have been resistant if they want you to present for this, or whatever the case is. So I feel like you know, I’m able to actually get around or to have my message go a little broader than I could have maybe pre COVID. 

Brett Thornton: 

So yeah, and you know, you mentioned something that that I’m really interested in which is, you know, what, how do you get companies? And how do companies, you know, have events? Do speakers start, you know, diversity inclusion groups, like do different things, and actually do it for the right core reasons and really have an impact on our culture versus that check off the box? Because it was like, the bigger the company, the harder it would be to just not it not to seem like I’m just checking this box, like, how do how do companies do that?

Tracy Jackson:

Well, you know, they have to approach it like they would any strategic objective in the organization, you have to have metrics behind it, it has to be on paper, there has to be a true value of your organization that you believe in this. And you also have to do some convincing and helping helping people to understand that this is not just a feel good measure. It is a business initiative. It’s a profitability issue. And you can there’s a lot of statistics and research done on how organizations that are more diverse, are profitable, more profitable than those that aren’t having more women in executive roles or on the board, how having more diverse diversity and then not having diversity. And so how it’s attached to the profitability. And when you think about the changing demographics of the world, especially of the United States, and increasingly, with big states like California, New York, the diversity, the numbers are shifting. And actually, right now, California does not have a majority. And majority doesn’t mean doesn’t have a largest population, it means that there isn’t more than 50% of a population growing, the largest growing population is the Hispanic Latino group, they’re growing exponentially. And the white population is declining, black population steady Asian populations going up about 1%. However, the most, the population that’s really growing increasingly is the more than the biracial and multiracial groups. And so we’re going to become much more racially complex. And also by the end of this decade, if we think about it by the end of 2030. So that’s eight and a half years, less than eight and a half years, all the baby boomers will be 65 years and older. So they still represent a large majority of executives, but they are exiting the workplace exponentially. And the biggest group of people that will be left are the millennials, not the exes. And I know, you would probably think that that Generation X is right behind them. But the millennials are going to represent a large portion of the workforce, the millennials have a different value system than the boomers, they’re strikingly different, you know, exercise somewhere in the middle, is going to change how business is done. I mean, people have to understand that they’re either going to be blockbuster and go out of business, because you didn’t keep up with the times. And don’t understand that this group is coming in. The baby boomers are exponentially dying is just because of age. And so they’re not the population that’s going to be in leadership or the population you’ll serve. The Millennials are definitely driven by social by values, by their own personal values, by social issues, they want you to be environmentally conscious, if you’re not aware of all these different things, and that the fact that we’re becoming a much more racially complex, world and nation, you’re going to lose. And so I try to help bring those things to light, not just It feels good to say Black Lives Matter. We don’t, we didn’t like what happened to George Floyd. Of course, those things matter. But I try to help them understand that there’s a business model. And this is about being successful in your organization to embrace this, these are the customers you serve, these are the people you want to employ, you want to talk to your talent, you want to make sure that you understand that that could be a person who’s trans and how to use demonstrate respect to them. And you know, a lot of people fear having diversity training, because they think that is something I really talk about that I don’t do. Because what I don’t want people to think is you have to change your political affiliation. You don’t, to not be to demonstrate respect and embrace people of diverse groups. You don’t have to change your religious beliefs, because there are some things that cross over into those areas. What I tell them is, these are more rules of engagement. And if you understand how to demonstrate respect and show and how to engage with different populations, this is how you’re going to win. It doesn’t mean that you can’t continue to be a Catholic or Mormon or Christian, or non or non religious person. But how do you demonstrate respect between these people between the liberals and the conservatives in the tea parties in the Green Party, there is a way to actually engage respectfully between those groups, and I talked about that. So I don’t know if that was too much of an answer for you. Trust me, everyone listening out there to hire Tracy comms? That was awesome. Yeah. So that’s what I’m passionate about. And I love that I can really push into that area. So

Yeah, I mean, you know, just personally in our organization, I know I introduce you to our Vice President of HR Raquel has done some amazing things. And she’s pretty awesome. And we’ve got this really cool, you know, DNI group and we’ve been meeting, but it’s like this, this to the point, like, it’s been this whole kind of challenge over a year and a half of like, hey, how do we make really cool, you know, kind of deep rooted systematic, like cultural changes versus like, stamping the box, you know, so we’re trying to, you know, navigate that. And I think, you know, I actually want to dovetail because you mentioned something that that, you know, you actually have a perfect example of this. But, you know, the purpose of this season two of this podcast has really been highlighting these different amazing female executives, really in underrepresented leadership industries. And mainly because the industry that I’ve always worked in this mattress industry is like one of the worst, you know, I mean, especially like, if you think back to when you started that sleep train in 2004. I mean, our entire industry was basically older white dudes and box suits. You know, and it’s slowly changing, but it’s still very far behind. And so how many organizations in these kinds of industries, you know, macro furniture car, you know, automotive, like tech like, that are very underrepresented. Like, to your point, if the, if the buying market and the leadership market in the next 10 years is millennial strong, like, aren’t those industries in a lot of trouble, if they can’t figure out a way to start bringing in a more diverse leadership group? That’s exactly it, I’m trying to help them sound the alarm now to make adjustments and shifts in how they operate, so that they can, you know, adjust to the times that we have and to still be profitable, because if you don’t stay ahead of those curves, you know, it’s not just technology, you got to stay ahead of you got to stay ahead of social and, you know, the social trends and just the reality, the demographic shifts that are taking place. So yes.

Brett Thornton:

What was your first thought the first time you walked into an executive meeting, that’s the training, you were the only female?

Tracy Jackson:

Well, I wasn’t the only female, I was the only non white male. So, and that remained that way. And I can’t say that it was comfortable, it was really difficult, and it was challenging. And there, you know, there’s only so much you can kick and scream and say things. And occasionally, I would get some, some allies, you know, your boss, Matt Anderson was pretty darn good at that. Can Annie aus, who’s an amazing partner that I sometimes actually do presentations with? who ended up being the president of sleep training is an author, he and I, he was a great ally of times. But you know, sometimes you had to rely on your allies, because there were people and I experienced it there. And I experienced at other places who, you know, would try to silence your voice because you’re a female. You’re, oh, you’re just crying wolf. I remember what there was an issue that I won’t necessarily bring up because it wasn’t the best one. And it’s, I’d rather not. But someone said, How come no one said this? And finally her nanny said she did say it. That’s what you don’t know. And no one else said anything. He said she did say it. And yeah, we got we got we got slapped on the wrist for something that I did say, but there were times where people would just say, Oh, this is not you’re not an industry, you know, person or your HR. And they would try to put me in a little bubble and listen, just there. That’s life. And, and I’m not specifically saying that’s always because I was a woman are always because of different ways. You know, those people were my people. And I really felt like I was a part of the team. And a lot of ways there was there weren’t a lot of times when I didn’t. And, you know, there’s there’s some of it that was inherent to the fact that, you know, we go on trips, and many of them, we share rooms. And of course, I’m not sharing a room with any of them. So they would team up and do things. And I’d find out later, like, Oh, they all got together and went out. So I mean, some things happen. And they just naturally happen that were a little isolating. But it was challenging at times. You know, there’s times I remember sitting in rooms with comp, we were having meetings, and of course, I’m the only the only a couple categories. And it was like, I have the worst cramps right now. And if a tear rolls down my eye because I’m just barely existing here, but there’s no way I could ever say that. Or anyone in this room could even sympathize with the fact that I am dying in pain and cramps right now. I almost want to get next to the trash can so I can throw up and then someone asked me a question and I’m like, I can’t even answer. I can barely hear my ears are ringing because I’m in so much freakin pain.

Brett Thornton:

So crazy. Yes. So, so tell me, you know, along those lines, you know, as you think back at your career, you know what, what to get to where you are today and have your own company and in you know, have these huge successes from an executive perspective. You know, like, what do you look back out and, and, and from a failure perspective, you know, like, what defined you or what was really difficult that you had to do Get through and how did you do it?

Tracy Jackson:

No, that’s a good question. I was, I didn’t know I was really driven, quite honestly, I had to figure this out, and people had to point it out to me. I just thought I’m just gonna do the job. And but um, yeah, there’s a lot of sacrifices that I made. And you know, there’s sometimes I wonder if they were things that I should regret and or fail beyond my regret, regret list. I had to travel a lot. And that was gone. I don’t think people realize how much I travel. I was on 30 to 40 round trips a year when my kids are growing up, and I have three daughters. And so there’s a lot of things that I missed. And sometimes I would show up at their school and they would wonder who I was, you know, some of the other moms would be like, oh, who are you? One of my favorite stories, though. And I’ll digress and then come back. A lady said to me, excuse me? And I said, Yes, she goes, are you like, a train engineer? And I said, What? So I figured out my daughter’s thought I worked at sleep train and didn’t know what I did. So she told him I was training.

So the train round fix, yeah. Yes. And I remember the first time she came to my job with me, she’s like, I don’t get it. Where do you sleep? And where’s the train? So she thought I slept on a train. And then that didn’t work for her, then I became a trained engineer. So the stories would progress about where I was. So, um, yeah, failures. You know what, quite honestly, I’m going to tell you that my biggest failure is not speaking up as much as I should have in some situations, but it was exhausting at times, to be the only only Yeah, and there were times I should have spoken up even more, even though you know, the one time her nanny, you know, he had my back, Anderson would have my back to the they were probably my biggest two allies, at times, but I should have spoken up more, I should have said more in certain areas, I should have pushed back on some things. But it was exhausting. So I, you know, when I actually think about things that I regret is usually what I, when I didn’t speak up when I should have, just because I was I was tired of being the only voice of dissension at time. So, yeah. And what would you, you know, if you could go back and tell your younger self a piece of advice, like on how to do it? Like, how would you even do that, you know, how would you muster the strength to do it, and what, you know, you know, today is different than it is then I think, if I, I would have it, it has nothing to do with my age, it’s just the time, you know, as time changes, so two attitudes, and they shift and soften and suck certain areas. And today, I would have felt much more confident, and had the ability to stand up and say some things about certain areas. So, but I also knew that I could have risked my job by by being the outlier all the time, and to stand up and so yeah, it’s it’s, uh, it’s challenging, it’s, it’s hard to be the Trailblazer in an area, you know, being the only only, you know, people will come up to me in the organization saying, Tracy, I’m so glad you’re in the organization, it gives women hope, people who were of different ethnicities would tell me the same thing Tracy gives me hope that I know, I can move up in the company. And then people who are LGBTQ said, Tracy, I’m so glad you’re in this position, I know I can trust you, I know, you’ll represent my, my, my thoughts and my needs and things. And it was great to hear, but at the same time, it could be a burden as well, to feel like you shoulder all of those people’s, what they, their interests are and to present them and to want to properly represent them. And knowing that it’s going to go against the tide with the group that you’re in. So it’s it’s a tough balancing act. And again, you know, a lot of eyes on you. And it wasn’t sometimes just what, like a lot of people can make mistakes, who are an executive team, and they wouldn’t be categorized as that’s the one failure. That’s the black woman’s failure. That’s, you know, it, so I knew that failure would be exponential for me. And so there were times that I took more safe paths than not, I’m not saying always because I did speak up and I did do some things, but there are times I could have done more.

Brett Thornton:

Yeah, no, that’s very powerful. You know, and I think that, you know, it’s it’s, like you said, you know, you filled a bunch of only boxes, which is in itself is you know, is I can imagine being very stressful because I think from what I’m hearing now, besides just the the nature of it being a very intense job anyways, then it sounds like you’re also feeling the weight of the world like Hey, I got to succeed too, because I’m I’m representing all these different people, they’re kind of looking up to me, I can’t blow it, like I got to succeed. That’s a lot of pressure.

Tracy Jackson:

It is, it was. And it still is. And so it feels good to not be in that kind of role anymore. So yeah, and it gets exhausting. When you feel like it, you’re just going to be fighting all the time. So sometimes you just have to regroup and gain your energy backup, refocus, figure out what your priorities are going to be to really go after them. So if I were to go into that role today, and the different time period, and I would, I would approach things differently, because I have wisdom and maturity. So I’m not saying I was immature, but I, I did the best I could in the circumstances that I was in. I also knew that I didn’t want to jeopardize my job. I, you know, it wasn’t just me who, again, was in this position, it was my family, my, I can tell you that I give a lot of credit to my career to my in laws. That may sound crazy. But if I got a bonus, they got a bonus because I had them moved from San Jose to around the corner for me to take care of my kids so that I knew that they were cared for when I was gone. So I could do the best job I could. If they didn’t do that, for me, there’s no way I would do a good job. There’s no way I would exceed in my career. There’s no way if if my husband was not my biggest supporter, that I could have done these things. So I knew it wasn’t just me who fails to so it wasn’t just the eyes in the organization who were all looking at me. It was also this whole group of people, you know, you talked about it takes a village. This was many of them sacrifice to get me to the position where I was my dad sacrificed and my, you know, my dad passed away back in 2009. But I can tell you that when I came home, one time from college, it was like for Christmas, there was a leak in the ceiling, and the carpet was all wet. And he had little buckets and stuff and I go Dad, what’s the what what’s going on here. He’s like, well, the loan I took out for the house as spent for your college. So I’ll deal with this. But it’s all about you. And you’re my greatest investment. And that’s what he told me. And so as much as I mean, what a compliment to me, but I also knew I cannot let my these people down who’ve all made sacrifices, you know, to put me in a position where I was to, to set me up for success. So yeah,

Brett Thornton:

That’s awesome. I love that story. You know, and I think that the good news is, is that you did it?

Tracy Jackson:

Did it and I know a lot of people are I made a lot of people proud, including myself, you know, my husband, I know. He’s incredibly proud of me. And what’s really interesting is, you know, I have three daughters. And I know that they look at me. And so it’s funny, I was telling the story this week, Mike, I went to one of those parent teacher conferences, and the teacher said, um, your daughter writes about you in Seattle a lot. Do you go to Seattle a lot. I go, I do. So, but I remember one year, I wasn’t home, I remember exactly as I went as far back as August. And I was gone every single week from August till the end of the year. And I remember telling them I’m taking time off right around Christmas, so I could have some time off. And I told the girls, I said, I just want to apologize to you guys, because I know I haven’t been here a lot like I should. And my daughter’s in their beautiful wisdom. And they had to be probably 12 1012, eight and seven or something like that the three of them, as I’m telling them mistico Why are you apologizing? We think your career is cool. We want to be like you when we grow up. We love that you have this job. And here I am feeling this mom guilt that dads don’t feel. So again, I have this additional thing that you know, dads who travel and they know they’re with their mom, or they’re fine. For the most part. Here I am feeling like I’m, I’m you know, having them miss their mom. And they told me they’re with their grandparents, or their dad. And they’re fine. And I don’t so there’s all these different things that we have, you know, we want to be good wife, we want to be a good parent, we want to be a good daughter in law because my in laws are amazing. I want to be I want to represent my family in the best possible light. And you know, all of them have made sacrifices for my success. And I want to do a great job because I think Dale is amazing. And he took a risk in and selected me for this role. And so yeah, so it’s a lot of pressure. And, you know, it’s funny because, you know as parents, you know, I think Very common to, you know, make up these stories in our heads of like what our kids are interpreting or, you know, like, what they’re thinking, Oh my God, this or that. And then yeah, when they get a little older, it’s wild when they tell you, oh, no, this is how I actually do this or whatever. Right. I was telling you before, before we started recording, but yeah, you know, my kids have been going back and forth from New York all summer, because their mom works in New York. And we so we deal with that during the year, you know, like, I’ve always felt, you know, as a kids growing up with, you know, split household, like, I hold that guilt, you know, that a tremendously, like, Oh, my God, or, you know, how’s this gonna show up in there as they’re adults and all these different things. But then when they’ve gotten older, of course, you know, that’s going to affect them. But what they mentioned is like, Oh, well, you know, my ex wife and I, you know, we get along so well, we co parents, oh, well, we have all these opportunities, I get to live in New York, I get to come back, we travel mom had a business, like you’re doing these cool things. Like that’s the interpretation. Right? And, and you’re like, oh, okay, well, that’s different than I was thinking out of my head, you know, like, we’re so hard on ourselves, sometimes, you know, I’m like, oh, man, like this or that. But at the end of the day, I mean, to your point, you know, we’re trying to do the best. And, you know, if you really are, then I think at the end of the day, it’s going to work out how it’s going to work out, you know, right. So talking about that and success, you know, when you look back at your career, you know, like is there one moment that you still think you know, you you just smile when you think about it like something happened some success and then you know, you you just couldn’t believe

I will. I mean, our Aesop was amazing. The fact that so while we were at sleep train, we became an Aesop organization, our CEO Dale Carlson, who’s amazing, I think you had him on maybe a couple times, you should have more more. He’s got plenty of great stories. Amazing man, him and his wife, Katie, wonderful people, but gave 25% of the company to to the employees. And you know, people go well, how much did you know people think that they made up all this money with the sale to mattress for Miko. They gave 25% of the company to the employees and over the cycle of the Aesop. So basically, the employees are given the company there’s a certain value kind of like given some free stock to the company that the employees built that up, it started off the value of that of Aesop was $13.1 million. And that was the program I oversaw was the ISA. By the time we sold it, less than five years later, the value was $117 million dollars. That’s what went to our employees. And I still am in awe, that we were able to do that kind of growth in that short period of time. We got Aesop awards from the national organization from the regional organization. I mean, we were like the poster child when it came to Aesop’s. So that was pretty amazing. And the day we put our name on that arena, when it became sleep train arena, that was freaking awesome. I still look at that building because it exists. Yes. And actually became like a COVID field us hospital for a little while. But I think how freakin amazing to be a part of a team who can sit around a table come up with something so impactful and go look it’s right there we can see it. Yeah, and when I traveled and people would sometimes see something with sleep training they go Oh, is that where the king’s plan I go? Well, I don’t work for them but that’s my company. So there was a lot of pride that I feel like sleep train is where I’m most that that’s that they it owns a piece of my heart It’s a real thing that sits there that will forever be a part of my heart My kids it’s so funny if that called one of them they probably one of them probably has a sleep train shirt on they still wear sleep train they love sleep train they love everything about what sleep train did so even even anything that that was bad that happened exponentially great things happen because of what I worked at sleep train so who cares about those bad days they’re they’re overshadowed by far by all the great days so you know my career working with those people with with the team at sleep train was amazing. And then the sales of the company selling our company for was a 454 and a 25 million and you know, I’ve got my name is on that document they named only a few people in my name is on that document. That’s pretty freakin amazing. So those are some of the highlights.

Brett Thornton: 

Yes, and I share many of those with you which is great. You know, that was a wild time I told us I told the story of I actually I was not at the the leadership conference when we found out the news of the sock because I had I had shattered my shoulder And I still have this giant thing in here with all these screws because I had taken. Simmons at the time had put together a big contest for skiing and snowboarding up in Big Bear. And then Scott Higgins, who was the RVP of SOCOM was like, Hey, man, I really need you to go, you know, and make sure no one gets hurt, like, Oh, great. And then of course, I shattered my cold collarbone shoulder. And so I was in a bed, I had just come out of surgery. And I remember Anderson was like, Hey, I’m going to call you. And then, you know, we did like a Skype. And he Skyped in from his computer, and he had sent me a box. I said, Don’t open it until what so I was, I was Skyping in live when Dale was up on the stage and did the whole, like, Now open your box, and it was the mirror, you know, like, because he said that, you know, they sold the company, and everyone freaked out that it was us or whatever, which was a brilliant way to do it. It’s just, that’s everyone has this great memory of being there and partying and celebrating. I was like, Oh, I was miserable post surgery, like shattered shoulder. But that was such a, it was just such a great time. You know, and I talked about actually often now, you know, I think as a lot of us do who work there, you know, I think our our SL t team or the that top group of like 25 people, I don’t think there was one change in the last like four or five years before that selves, just so constant, you know, we get together every quarter for those meetings. And it was an it was just exciting to watch how the becoming employee owned, really wove down to the DNA of the company culture so fast. You know, I mean, it was just the person who’d been hired five days was like, hey, turn over that paper. Let’s reuse it, you know, it’s just like, it didn’t matter what it was, like, Hey, we have a piece of this. So don’t waste money. Like, let’s be smart. Let’s, let’s grow money. Let’s do this, you know, which is just so great. You know, I think that, you know, there’s probably so many amazing organizations that that could be the one thing that would take them to the next level. 

Yeah, no, I totally agree. And, you know, if there was a fair as anybody who I could convince to really consider that I would really highly encourage people to look into it. And the Aesop community is amazing, they are willing to share their secrets and, you know, advice and information, it was one of the most welcoming communities I’ve ever been a part of. And so to oversee and lead that initiative to really gain value with it and to develop the Aesop the different committees that I had across the, the, the organization, it was amazing, just to see the engagement, and then the level of of care and concern that the employees took in making that organization what it was, so yeah, no, that’s awesome. So I’ve got two last questions. I know I said, it’d be a half an hour, keep asking. So last few questions. So second to last is, so what would be your advice for somebody? Let’s say you got somebody getting out of college, right? I don’t know what to do, you know, and they look at industries like the mattress industry, or, you know, tech or automotive or like industries that are very underrepresented, you know, from from a leadership perspective, whether it’s diversity, whether it’s male or female. You know, you took a plunge, and you took a chance to come into an industry like sleep train, right that and walk into a room where you were only only only, um, you know, what advice would you give to young people like looking at these different career paths, and maybe being scared of jumping in and joining an industry like that?

Tracy Jackson:

You know, I think it’s important for anyone to know what the culture of an organization is, the widget or the service that they sell, as long as it’s ethical in your mind, that’s almost irrelevant. It’s really that mad at the culture, nobody would have said, Oh, I wanted to sell beds. But you would be incredibly, just surprised at how long people stayed at the organization, because it was a great place to go, you didn’t wake up dreading to go to work. And that’s what you need to do is to figure out a place that you don’t dread going out where your spot is, and really press into learning more about that as much as you can. You know, I started in insurance, I never wanted to work in insurance, but that’s where I started. And I that’s where I found out I loved HR, the person who hired me into my internship. I never thought of HR I didn’t know that was a career quite honestly, I was too young 20 when I found out about this internship, I just wanted a job. And her name is Valerie Austin. And I remember feeling like she changed my life. And I thought, Oh my gosh, I want to work in a business that changes people’s lives. And she just did it. And so I was like, I want to be like Valerie Austin. And so she was the person who I had in mind the whole time as I’m developing my careers. So find people who you admire and respect and ask them about opportunities with what they would do because you’re going to find them on a micro level. I’m gonna I’m telling you on a macro level, of course, but finding somebody on a smaller level who you feel like you want to model your career after and work with and see if they they usually are connected to people within their industry. they’ll usually be able to give you some really sound advice. And, you know, it’s really good also to note industry, but I also kind of liked it. I’m not an industry person, meaning that I can work in any industry, I’ve worked in casinos, I worked in insurance, I worked at Apple, I worked at mattresses, I worked in banking. So it’s kind of nice that I felt like I wanted to work in an environment where it was universal to didn’t matter what the organization was, I just want to work in an organization with a great culture. And, you know, really press into that, and continue to be a learner, I think it’s important to, to not just feel like you can step into a role and then just learn the job, but continuously getting external learning so that you can develop those skills and keep them sharp and fresh.

Brett Thornton:

Yeah. And, and that being said, you know, so I imagine there’s people in all different industries listening, which there, which there are, which is great. You know, how do people get in contact with you? Let’s say they’re listening. They’re like, you know what, I love what Tracy saying right now. I need some help. So I know you’ve got like, your little things, for people watching the video, you can kind of see your contact, but what’s the best way for someone to get ahold of you? If they’re like, you know what, I would love Tracy to come and speak.

Tracy Jackson: 

Oh, that, you know, and I would love to do that. So, and I help organizations put together their diversity initiatives and things of the sort. So they can go to my website, that’s probably the easiest one, h r e z, Inc, I NC so HR easy I NC comm or you can contact me, you can go to info at HR easy Inc. Calm, or you can come directly to my email and it’s Tracy tr AC y at HR easy inc.com. or give us a call. Even my cell phone I actually have listed on my, if you’re looking at this, it’s my cell phone is 916-208-0205. And that comes right to this phone right here that’s sitting in front of me. Yeah, and I have a business line. So you can look me up.

Brett Thornton:

That’s awesome. Yeah, commercials. I remember, like, there was a guy back in the day. Holy cow Worthington. He used to put like his number, you know, like, Oh, my gosh, they’ll see me direct or whatever, you know, but I actually love it. Because, yeah, for people listening out there, I just think that. And you would know this more than I but just from from my colleagues and businesses, I see. I just feel like, there’s so many industries at a major inflection point right now where they have got to adapt. And they’re on a road. And it’s like, do you got to forge this way? And I just think organizations like holding, because they just aren’t confident of how do I do that? How do I head this way? Right? hire more diversity? How do I bring in new leaders? How do I do these things? And so instead of doing anything, they’re just kind of sitting there. And it’s like, there’s no need to like, start get parallels? 

Tracy Jackson: 

Yeah, they get paralyzed in that I can’t tonight, I don’t want to, I don’t want to offend. I don’t want to say the wrong thing. I don’t want to do the wrong thing. And they get stuck there. And I try to get them unstuck out of that and play to win, you know, we, we talked about it as sleep train how we play to win. So we think Win, win win. So you have to think about what you do want to do. You want to make sure you’re the best employer, you attract the top tier talent, that you make room for anyone at the table who deserves a seat to be there. That’s what you talk about is what you do want to do. And that will allow you to move forward. Because if you get stuck in the I can’t you won’t do anything, you’ll stay the same way. you’re you’re you’re going to do the same things that you’ve been doing. So 100% Well, thank you so much, Tracy. I could talk for like nine hours. But you know, I can’t I got a mouthpiece here. So yeah.

Brett Thornton:

Thank you so much. And I hope that, yeah, I can connect some dots with people to you because obviously I think the world of you and I know that, you know you would bring a lot to any organization that would reach out. So thank you for being on. I really appreciate it and we’ll talk soon. Thank you. My pleasure. Take care.

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